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Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?)
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Ok,
to recap my Hollow Point cast bullet story, here are the filed reports.


Projectile
- 100% wheel weight of unknown hardness
- Weight 460gn
- Length 30mm (1.2 inch)
- Hollow point diameter 6mm, depth 12mm cone shaped with 5mm at the base.

The load
- 45-70
- Powder AR2206 31gn
- Primer Winchester standard large

The gun
H&R Buffalo Classic

Observations:
- Nominal 1150 fps (just under speed of sound in NSW)
- very pleasant shooting with very mild recoil
- 1.5 inch center to center 10 shots group at 100 meter


The result - see photos below.

Conclusion:
- bullet may be a bit too hard
- velocity may be a bit too slow but it is very accurate at the present load

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A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


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Last edited by gelandangan on Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report Reply with quote

Here is the entry and exit point on a young billy goat shot at about 70 meters (measured with Bushnell Yardage range finder).
This is also the typical size of goat that I would shoot - larger ones are too stinky and smaller ones do not have enough meat).



entry with skin.jpg
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_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report Reply with quote

After skinning and butchering the goat, we found that:

The shot enters left shoulder, breaking the shoulder bone, through the chest area (just forward of the heart) and exit on right shoulder after breaking some ribs.



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exit point from inside
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entry point from inside - notice the bone broken clean
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entry hit bone.jpg


exit no skin.jpg
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entry point from skin side
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_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

I also shot a rabbit ..

Well, instead of cloud of red mist, the rabbit is still edible, very much so.

Stupid me, I head shot the rabbit, instead of shooting it head on with the body aligned on the bullet path.
I could say that I am a bit disappointed with the result, but then again, my shooting training, make me shoot rabbits a certain way.



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_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

I want a 45-70 varmint rifle too...???
Well maybe not - I already have my 30-06 Smile

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:10 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Well, I tell ya what Gelan...I am very surprised at the performance delivered on the target by those projectiles mate. I fully expected a massive mess.

Maybe you are correct when you say that they might be a little too hard. But then again mate...1" - 1.5" at 100m is nothin' to sneeze at...I would be happy with a group of that size. Don't change your load mate...it works.

If you feel that you want to try a softer projectile, then you could mix the wheel weight alloy with maybe 50% lead. Only problem with that is you don't know the actual composition of the wheel weight alloy. Next time I am down in Sydney I will drop some alloy around to you...some Tall Ingots Bullet Alloy and some pure Linotype so you can try some different lino/lead mixes. I would keep a record of the different mixes so that you can see which one is the better in a given situation.

These are 12g Slug I cast up in different alloys:



Left to right they are: 1. PURE Lead, 2. 100% Linotype and 3. Tall Ingots Bullet Alloy. All were fired into a Eucalyptus tree at 50m.
The Bullet Alloy penetrated about 2" and the Linotype slug penetrated about 3" or 4" .

Good shooting on that bunny mate....what range did you nail it from?

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

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OntheLasGallinas
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Vince,

That's impressive penetration with the Linotype slug. You didn't note the penetration with the pure lead slug. How does the Linotype slug compare in weight to the pure lead?

Gelan,

Congratulations on the hunting trip. It looks like you had a good one. That’s some mighty fine shooting there. I’m really surprised that the rabbit wasn’t decapitated with that size slug. People in this part of the country eat lots of goat. It’s mostly cooked on a BBQ grill. How are they prepared in your part of the world?

Cary

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

A'm I the only one to see the irony in gelandangan (a.k.a. Elmer Fudd ) shooting a rabbit ??????? ROFL Laughing ROFL

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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

I did not say anything about the wheel weight slugs as you were going on a learning trip so thought it would be fun to see how you made out. For slow movers. like the 45-70 at standard velocity, WW slugs are just to hard to give good expansion. What you can do is go with an alloy that is no more than 50% WW to pure lead and you will start to see some expansion. The more pure lead the better the expansion.

I do like the big and slow's lack of meat destruction on the goat. Had you shot that goat with a high velocity round there would only be hind quarters to prepare based on description of entry and exit. Very Happy
Best,
Ed

PS: You are missing a plunger, like a BB. Think about it.

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

gelandangan

Great story, shooting and pics.

I am interested in learning more about bullet casting and in particular how you create the hollow point.

Was it cast in, or did you machine the bullet post casting?

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Good job with your project gelandangan !!! Well done !!!

Over the years, I’ve seen a lot of guys shoot a number of different objects trying to determine what you’ve done. You name it, water jugs, steel plates, watermelons, other fruits and vegetables, tree stumps, old phonebooks, and the list goes on and on.
Shooting these objects give useful information that help make us better hunters.

The thing that bothers me is, so many shooters/hunters miss the whole picture, they only focus on part of it.
Yes, your 45-70 carries a lot more punch than what you showed us. I’m willing to bet that slug could have passed through a few more goats with the same results. If you want splatter effects, SwampFox is right about more pure lead. Higher velocity will also get the job done. I’m willing to bet you already know this though !!!

The point I’m trying to make here is about how much wasted energy most hunters have. Big holes in the off side of a animal should be your first clue. When they run and you have to track them should be your second. Most hunters do not match their energy level with the game they’re hunting and the distance they will take it. You on the other hand got way more gun than you need but got it to work on your game without blowing it all to hell !!! Good Job !!!

Those of you that use your big magnums to shoot whitetails at short distances should really try and learn something from gelandangan’s hard work !!!

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fireball 3
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Very Happy EXCELLENT JOB!!!!! Mighty fine shootin w/ a buffalo gun at a wabbit and goat.you picked the right bullet in my opinion...Great job--no wasteed meat...BTW great pic of you a Santy and Vince.

Lesterg3--midway was sellin a hollow point unit from I believe it was Forster

I have a jig I made that centers 6rds at a time and I mount it on a grill press at work. I use a 1/8 wood drill bit w/ a pilot bit.It works great. I even use it on factory sp noses too...Dave

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

OntheLasGallinas wrote:
Vince,

That's impressive penetration with the Linotype slug. You didn't note the penetration with the pure lead slug. How does the Linotype slug compare in weight to the pure lead? Cary

Cary, the pure lead barely penetrated...maybe 1/4" - 1/2" at the most. A eucalyptus, or gum tree, is a hard wood tree, and I too was rather surprised with the penetration of the linotype slug...and it was hardly deformed...I could reload it as is.

The pure lead slug would be great on pigs...it would expend every skerrick of its energy in the animal, and they hit terribly hard as well.

Gelan...I gotta agree with the rest of the guys. You have done some magnificent research work here, not just with throwing bucket sized lead "ingots" at critters, but with your development of low recoil rounds and also with your .300 Whisper. Well done mate.

Cheers, Vince

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

@ VInce, the rabbit were shot at about 45 - 50 meters away. I was walking and used a tree for rifle support.

@ Cary, I used to eat rabbit here, just fry them with lots of bacon rinds then follow up with stewing them for about 1 hour in wine.
Tough as car tyre otherwise. Very Happy

@Chambered221
Well, I have luck. OTOH my friend Sam - well, with his belt fed revolver he keep missing them bugs..
Muahahahaha!! Twisted Evil
I find animals do not get any tougher, so there is no point in increasing the power of my gun.
Also, I do not like long distance shooting, it is irresponsible and have too many chance of wounding.


@ Swampy,
I used to use 223, 243 or 308 on goats. But that was years ago, when I was worried about how close I could get to the target.
A few years ago, on a guided Deer hunt, I learn from the hunting guide, Will Kamporst from Wild Harvest on how to sneak closer and best of all how to butcher.
Now, I use really slow bullet, I cut in half my powder usage and got my shooting to a new enjoyment level.
Very Happy

@ lester, If you read my post on the previous topic, you will see that this bullet is casted by a mate of mine.
He is using a custom made bullet mold.


So, thanks for your kind comments guys.
I'll try to do better next time with some gory-er pictures Twisted Evil

Roses

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A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Cary of the LasGallinas wrote:
How does the Linotype slug compare in weight to the pure lead?

Sorry Cary, I missed answering this part of your post mate.

There was minimal difference in the weight between the three different alloys when cast into a slug.

Linotype - 393.9gr (0.9 oz) (3.4gr (0.0078 oz) variation over 10 "weighs")

Bullet Alloy
- 411.9 gr (0.941 oz) (1.4gr (0.0032 oz) variation over 10 "weighs")

Pure Lead - 424.5 gr (0.97 oz) (2.8gr (0.0064 oz) variation over 10 "weighs")

The variations in the weight over a random 10 slugs in each alloy is minimal as you can see, and certainly makes no difference whatsoever to the load. I loaded each of then as a 1oz slug.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
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