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Shot Show 2007
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

New Kimber Pistols. With light rail.

Quote::
Kimber new models
Kimber is bringing out some new models for 2007 (you did expect that, didn't you?). The first is the Covert series of pistols. These will be available in 5", 4" and 3" barrel lenghts. They feature a lighteight aluminum frame (7075-T7 for those in metallurgy), carry dehorning treatment, three-dot night sights and 30 lpi checkering on the front strap. The frames are covered in Desert Tan KimPro II finish (self-lubricating), while the slides and all small parts are covered in matte black oxide. The pistols are supplied with Crimson Trace Laser Grips in a special digital cammo pattern. The two shorter models come with bushingless barrels, while the 5" model has a standard barrel bushing setup and -thank God- a standard guide rod. Thanks Kimber.

The second addition to the Kimber line of 1911s consists of three new pistols in 9mm Para, the Aegis II line. Again, a full size, a 4" and a 3" ones will be offered, featuring an aluminum frame (same as the Covert one, but painted differently), and black slides. Checkering at the front of the frame is again 30 lpi and the pistols have spure-less hammers.

A 4" version of the TLE II will also be offered, called Kimber Pro TLE II, with a 4" bull barrel, 30 lpi front strap checkering and night sights.

Finally a special, limited edition M1911 will be offered this year, called the SuperAmerica. It's a 5" pistol finished in traditional blue (polished on the flats matte on the curved areas), fine English scroll engraving with golden borders, no front cocking serrations (but angled rear ones) and mammoth ivory grips (where do people find mammoth ivory???), stainless barrel with conventional bushing (but with a full-length guide rod). A Bomar rear sight is dovetailed in the rear of the slide, while a special knife is packed together with the pistol (featuring mammoth ivory grips also) in a wooden, velvet lined, presentation case. Both the pistol and the knife are numbered with matching serial numbers, starting with "KSA" (Kimber SuperAmerica).

Dimitri



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A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

Quote::
Well I am here and the coolest thing I have seen to date is the new Magpul, gas piston AR!!!! Think of the SCAR L, but even lighter! Amazing to say the least. The weapon should retail for around $1,400. If this weapon is reliable, they will blow the gas piston market out of the water. The LW's of the world might as well quit IMHO.

The Magpul mag is nice as well and seems very strong. I tried to crush it and saw someone jumping on it with no problems.

Quote::
LT did not show up with the Mono system (bummer). VLTOR's new flip up sight is kick ass to say the least. The POF with the VLTOR VIS is very nice as well and their .308 is going to sell I think.

Quote::
The new and improved Specter Dr was out and they seemed to make some good improvements in it. the eye relief and FOV still seem to be a problem IMHO.

Quote::
The HK 45 is nice and can see me getting one. The Glock 21SF is just OK to me and was more excited about the the S&W M&P than anything.

Quote::
The Colt M5 is very nice and they have a couple variations that will be cool I think.
Quote::
Trijicon is keeping tight lipped about their TR21 with a BDC. They hinted that they might show it off at shot, but are still hiding it from public view. They did reliease a new small reflex optic (like the JPoint) with an 8MOA dot. It is fairly priced and should sell well.

Quote::
Aimpoint came out with two new optics. The M4 and a small tubed bast dot (little bette than a Dr Optic). The M4's claim to fame is that it uses AA batts and has better run time than the current M3! The down side is that you have to use their propriatary mount (which is included). In the future, I am sure ccmpanies like LT will make a mount for it. I believe that price for the M4 will be approaching the $800 range.
Quote::
SureFire showed off their new LED's that utilze the newest LED technology from a company called CREE. To give you an idea on how bright these are, a L1 puts out 30 Lumens. The new L1 with the CREE LED, puts out 65 Lumens for over an HOUR! That's right, one CR123A is putting out 65 Lumen for over an hour (amazing). They will also be putting the CREE LED's in their L5, U2 and K2. This will geatly increase their Lumens output.

Quote::
The EOTech 557 is nice with the BDC and the side controls. The two EOTech Magnifiers are nice and have a wide FOVV(much better than th Aimpoint version). The magnifiers come with on of two mounts. A fixed mount or the Samson flip mount. I am not crazy about either, and am hoping that LT makes something for it in the future.

Quote::
CProducts showed off their 32rd 9mm mag and it is fantastic to say the least. They will own the 9mm mag marktet with this.
Almost forgot, LMT is coming out with their own Gas Piston system for the MRP! You will be able to buy the MPR with the gas system (installed at the factory) and buy a kit if you already have an MRP!

Dimitri



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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

Quote::
Kel-Tec has introduced a new line of High Efficiency Rifles in a Bullpup format. Called the RFB for Rifle Foreward ejection Bullpup, it is chambered in 7.62mm -- utilizes FN FAL magazines -- and comes with barrel lengths of 18", 24", and 32".
Brochure download............. www.kel-tec.com/images...07_web.pdf

Dimitri



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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

If more interesting stuff come up I'll post more if you guys like and arnt getting any other information from other sources. Smile

Thoughts on the stuff I've posted so far ?? Confused

Dimitri

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:

Thoughts on the stuff I've posted so far ?? Confused

Dimitri

I am trying to figure out where I would use this stuff .............. Surprised Laughing

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

The new Kel-Tec seems like possibly a good deer rifle, heck the 32" Barrelled version is only 40" long, meaning its 4" shorter then my FN49. Smile

Well thats assuming they dont label it as a FAL variant in Canada and then it would be prohibited here. Sad

Dimitri

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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

I would be interested in knowing why anyone would build a 32 inch 308 Win barrel to start with. The 308 will burn every bit of its powder in 18-20 inches, so the extra 14 inches is what, an internal braking system? Very Happy
Ed

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

Swampfox,

Wont there be some FPS increase with the longer barrel ?? Confused

Dimitri

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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

The belted mags like the 300 Win Mag can use a 26 inch barrel to optimum advantage. They have a case capacity over 1.5 times that of the 308. A 26 inch barrel in a 308 is at least a 4 inch brake, a 32 inch barrel is 6 more inches of useless resistance.
Ed

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

Swampfox I would agree with you but these guys don't see it the way we do.
But then again it is software projected velocities and not shot over a chrony.
Besides why would anybody want to carry around a 32" crowbar for hunting. Laughing

www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

But here's another one about the .22 velocity

www.findarticles.com/p...i_n6275764

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

1895,

According to that chart on the site you posted, you should be able to get a 308Win into 30-06 class with the normal powder loads. A good thing I think!

Dimitri

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

I suppose it would with a shorter barreled 30-06........... ! But who would want to carry around a rifle with a 32" barrel in the first place Shocked ............. ! NOT ME.......... Rolling Eyes Try it sometime Dimitri and you'll change your tune in a hurry. Lot's of things are possible, just not practical...........

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

1895,

I'd need to try it on for size but its only 11.5 pounds, my FN49 is only 2 pounds lighter (9.5lb's) but my FN49 is 4" longer then the Kel-Tec. Razz

Here is the Kel-Tec Spec sheet if your interested: www.kel-tec.com/images...07_web.pdf

Dimitri

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bfdd
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

[quote]The belted mags like the 300 Win Mag can use a 26 inch barrel to optimum advantage. They have a case capacity over 1.5 times that of the 308. A 26 inch barrel in a 308 is at least a 4 inch brake, a 32 inch barrel is 6 more inches of useless resistance.[quote]

Swampfox: You are correct that a 308 will burn up all of its powder in about 18 inches of barrel length. However, that does not mean that it will slow down after this. There will still be very great pressure in the barrel as the gas expands, and as long as that pressure is high enough to overcome the friction of the projectile moving down the barrel, then the projectile will continue to accelerate.

Think of it in terms of an air rifle. The piston of the air rifle compresses a certain amount of air to high pressure, forcing the projectile to move down the barrel. As long as the total pressure in the barrel is greater than atmospheric pressure, the projectile will continue to accelerate (i.e., it will have the force of the compressed air acting on it). Now, there will be some friction between the projectile and the barrel, so in reality the pressure will have to be quite a bit higher than atmospheric in order to overcome the friction.

Thus, when all the powder of the cartridge is burned up, the pressure in the barrel will decrease substantially as the projectile moves down the barrel, but the projectile will continue to accelerate because the barrel pressure is still much greater than atmospheric pressure. In general, the longer the barrel, the higher velocity you will get out of a given cartridge (unless the barrel is so long that the friction of the bullet against the rifling is greater than force of the expanding gas). However, because all the owder is burned up, each additional inch of barrel length will give you less of an increase in velocity (see the charts at this website for more: www.loadammo.com/Topic...er05.htm). According to the chart on the website, for the 150gr 308 load, you lose about 4 fps of velocity increase every 2 inches of barrel length. I.E. a 26" barrel will give you a 32 fps advantage over a 24" barrel, but a 28" barrel will only give you a 28 fps advantage over a 26" barrel, and a 32" barrel would give you a (24 + 20 =) 44 fps advantage over a 28" barrel. However, this still means that compared to the velocity for the 150 gr load of 2,531 fps out of a 24" barrel (seems like a rather weakl loading) you would get a velocity increase of 94 fps by using the 32" barrel for a total velocity of 2,627 fps. You can see that with a hotter round like the hornady 155gr TAP, quoted at 2785 fps, you would get an even greater benefit from the longer barrel.

Now all this blathering I have been doing has assumed that the barrel is sealed shut at the chamber. In a bolt-action rifle, this is true, but in a semiautomatic, it may not be the case. If the gas system of a semiautomatic rifle causes the chamber to open before the bullet leaves the barrel, then what SwampFox said will apply. I.E. the barrel pressure will be lost out of the chamber opening, and the additional barrel length will just act to slow down the bullet.

However, Kel-Tec claims that their RFB rifle has higher velocity for each barrel length, so we must assume for now that the rifle keeps the bolt closed long enough to allow the round to leave the barrel. Also, they say that the rifle has an adjustable gas system, so perhaps you must adjust the system to prevent gas being lost out the chamber.

Personally, I am turned off by the idea of lugging around a 32" barreled version of this gun, even though the OAL is only 40" (shorter than the OAL of the 22" barreled remington 700 BDL here: www.remington.com/prod..._BDL.asp). However, I find the 24" barrel sporter version very intriguing: good velocities out of the 24" barrel, hard-hitting .308 projectile, and with the same OAL as a 16" barreled AR-15 Carbine with the stock collapsed. (though it weighs about 1.5 lbs more)

Hope I didn't piss anyone off Mad , I know this was a long and tedious post. Just wanted to defend the bullpup idea- having a longer barrel with the same OAL is always a good thing.


Last edited by bfdd on Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Shot Show 2007 Reply with quote

bfdd,

Welcome to the forums Howdy

Dimitri

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