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marlin 30/30
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:21 am    Post subject: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

anyone got one???
did a few loads for my buddies with 160grn cast projectiles and AR2206. They fire nicely and cases show no signs of high pressure that I can see...only issue I had is when rounds are chambered the big blunt nose cast projectiles show light rifling marks on them about 1/4" out from case mouth for about 1/16" Shocked
is this normal freebore for these rifles????
cast pills may be slightly oversized but being so soft shouldnt cause any issues should they??? they load fine in x39mm with .308 expander ball used on cases.
oh yeah they chamber ok, fire nicely, no left over powder in case, extract fine and hit where aimed....

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:17 am    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

I don't know much about ADI, but looking at Gerard's chart with burning rates,
gsgroup.co.za/burnrates.html
I would suggest to try AR2205. Usually the best results here are obtained using Vihta's N110.

(or when you are familiar with PRB-powders: look at PCl512 (used for magnum loads in handgun as the .44RM and the .357 RM, as also in the .22 Hornet) or even the much faster burning PCl504 (used for handgun non-magnum loads)

And I wouldn't care about rifling marks with a cast bullet, as long as it stays in your case in the same depth as you put it. It's rather nasty when you push your bullet completely in the case while loading the round OR when you pull the bullet completely out of the case when you unload the round (without shooting it)
And 1 suggestion: maybe your lead is a little soft. Usually a softer lead gives thicker bullets. Using harder lead decreases bullets as-cast-diameter. And because the sizing die normally doesn't touch the sidewalls of your bullet's nose (unless it's that soft that you push it shorter and ticker), the softer lead might add a little to the diameter of the nose so that it's marked by the rifling.

I would be more concerned about using powder with a burning rate that's too slow than about rifling marks on the bullet's nose. (too little powder of too slow burning rate can give a pressure that's too high)

And now I'm cureous about the remarks of Gelandegan, The Subsonic Master Smile
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

I used AR2206, AR2207 in my 10" BBL TC Contender 30.30 using 150gn cast bullets, with AR2207 giving the best accuracy and results.

I use AR2208 (Varget) in my 30.30 Mod 94 lever gun. I would think that AR2205 is too fast for the 30.30 although it is a brilliant magnum pistol powder.

Elvis...as a start point I would measure the length of your loaded bullet. If it is longer than 2.550 inches then you have probably found the reason for the rifling printing on the bullet. I know it sounds like a silly question, but are you seating the bullet to the crimping cannellure and not a lube groove?

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

The metric equivalent of 30-30 is 7.62x51mm and you're using a x39mm sizing die? Anyway cases should be 2.039 and C.O.L. should be no longer than 2.550 (as Vinnie said). I shoot one, but not with cast bullets. The Lyman book states that a harder alloy like linotype would be best.

Suz

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

and look at the burning rates of the powders giving the 'potentially most accurate loads' in that Lyman Reloading Handbook: SR4759, RX7, H335. All of them being much faster than your AR2206 I believe...
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MacD
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

While I am still studying the use of oversize gas checked bullets I have learned by study and experience that plain lead pills should be .002 - .005 oversize to ensure good obturation and hence gas seal to prevent leading. Softer lead bullets will swage so easily that, unless jammed into the lands (Ref Aloy's comment above), I wouldn't worry about some light rifling marks on the ogive. I shoot 205 hard cast GC flat points (20-22 Brinell) in .35 Rem. They are .001 oversize and they are loaded right to the rifling. I use a mid-range load and no issues with pressure or accuracy.

With respect to powders, ADI lists AR2206H as equivalent to H4895. My Lee 2nd edition has a load for 160 grain lead starting at 17.5 grains of H4895 for 1351 fps rising to 21.0 for 1562 fps. These are good velocities for plain lead bullets. COL is 2.485. This load is from the Hodgdon site for a 160 grain lead flat nose. Please confirm the preceeding load data on thier site.

Just as a post scrip, I tumble lube plain lead bullets even when they have lube grooves. This has eliminated leading in my pistols and wheel guns. I have a 1875 Remington in 45 colt that would lead up badly in the forcing cone with factory lubed bullets. Tumble lubing worked wonders in this revolver.

Hope this helps.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

MacD, are you sure that load with H4895 is for a lead bullet? I would expect it more for a jacketed bullet...
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

Suzanne wrote:
The metric equivalent of 30-30 is 7.62x51mm and you're using a x39mm sizing die? Anyway cases should be 2.039 and C.O.L. should be no longer than 2.550 (as Vinnie said). I shoot one, but not with cast bullets. The Lyman book states that a harder alloy like linotype would be best.

Suz
that metric equivalent is for .308win
overall length is as per the book. I double checked just to make sure.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
I used AR2206, AR2207 in my 10" BBL TC Contender 30.30 using 150gn cast bullets, with AR2207 giving the best accuracy and results.

I use AR2208 (Varget) in my 30.30 Mod 94 lever gun. I would think that AR2205 is too fast for the 30.30 although it is a brilliant magnum pistol powder.

Elvis...as a start point I would measure the length of your loaded bullet. If it is longer than 2.550 inches then you have probably found the reason for the rifling printing on the bullet. I know it sounds like a silly question, but are you seating the bullet to the crimping cannellure and not a lube groove?
definitely the last groove for crimping not for lubing.
loaded rounds same length as a highland factory.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

thanks for replies guys n Gal....looks like they should be fine.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
MacD, are you sure that load with H4895 is for a lead bullet? I would expect it more for a jacketed bullet...

Yes lead. Hodgdon calls it a LCFN Lead cast flat nose. Here is a sample from Lyman. Note it is meant for a GC. They also have a load for H4198 but there isn't an equivalent ADI powder listed on ADI's site.



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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

7.62x51r...I previously left off the "r" (rimmed) otherwise yes it's the same as the .308 win. If it works for you, then it works, just seems the x39 die would be way too short and I was assuming you were using 7.62x39 but then your world is upside opposite from mine and the toilet swirls the other right hand way and you've got hopping things with huge tails that should run instead and too many poisonous insects to count and crazy people that run down wild pigs and stab them with knives instead of shooting them.....the list goes on and on...



Suz
will sleep
better now

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

now the 7.62x51r would be the .307winchester...a round that you find in the mod94 lever action winchester rifle...it is a .308 with a rim.
no I arent loading 30/30 with x39mm dies
I bought a set of 30/30 dies

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

Suz, I think I have to agree with Elvis on this one. And here only the .308 Win is sometimes also named 7.62x51, but there is a difference: the last name is usually indicating a military round.
But a .307 Win is always called a .307 Win and a 30/30 Win remains a 30/30, as these are no military rounds.

@Elvis: you should check the loading data of H&N on their site. Their data for copper-coated bullets can also be used for uncoated lead bullets. They use N110 or Unique powder. They don't crimp their rounds, they don't feed them trough the magazine and normally the best results are obtained by taking their loading advice as printed and changing the OAL till the best group.

And don't forget to point your rifle to the sky and tap the stock before each shot. It helps to know that your powder is always situated at the same spot in your case, namely close to the primer.

Casting bullets makes you feel like an old cook or alchemist, whatever suits you the best. Sometimes rituals do help.
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: marlin 30/30 Reply with quote

I took that metric value from the latest Lyman book (if you have one) that's what it says. The 7.62 is the bullet diameter and the x51 is the case length, the 30-30 being a rimmed case you add "R" to the end to designate a rimmed round. So apparently the 30-30 and the .308 have the same bullet dia. and the same case length. I'm only giving the metric equivalent because of your statement about using a x39 (which would be too short) and I wondered if you........oh freekin never mind....... I must have misunderstood when you said " they load fine in x39mm with .308 expander ball used on cases" I'm just wondering what you're using the x39 for (it's too short).

I'm not sayin it's a military round I'm only using the metric measurement equivalent to explain that it doesn't match up, case-length-wise. You need a lawyer around here.....and then Aloysis pipes in with this "I have to agree" bologna "it's not a military round"...well duh!! Maybe I should start eating sheep and stoemp for dinner....When you guys figure this out let me know....I just got outa bed and now I'm grumpy.....ooooooff

Suz

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