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Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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MacD
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

Okay I know the .356 9mm is a not the right size but it seemed close enough for plinking rounds. Surprisingly all but a couple of cases (Remington) were acceptable neck fits. To insure no creep I decided to give all a good solid crimp using a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die. Just to see how accurate Lee's claim that the die will form the necessary crimp groove I pulled one round. Here is the result compared to a new bullet. BTW these are Berry's Bullets, copper plated, deep hollow point and 124 grains. They are seated to 1.440 and the charge is a mild 4.5 grains of Bullseye. The proof will be in the shooting but I am hopeful.



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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

Mac...I used to shoot cast 124 grain 9mm Conicals in my S&W 586. I used them for target loads and they were real accurate. I cast these boolits myself and put them through my .357 Lubesizer and never had any problems with them. I did however use a fairly tight roll crimp (no LEE FCD in those days).

I don't think you will be disappointed mate, although if you do have problems I don't believe it is because you are using 9mm boolits.

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English Mike
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

There's no need to crimp that hard for consistency matey - I'd back off a ways so that the bullet just & so shows it's being held firmly.
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dhc4ever
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

What Mike said...........

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

When crimping plated bullets you stand the chance of fracturing the plating and causing a separation !!!

If your worried about case to bullet fit try using the expander from a 9mm die.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

Good idea Chambered. I will give it a try.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

Okay I use Lee dies and there is only a straight decapping pin in the sizing die. The 38 cases come out of the die with mouth diameters which do not grasp a 9mm bullet enough for a good fit. A 38 special case will size in the 9mm die and expand just right in the powder through 9 mm expander die which has enough body length to be adjusted for the longer case. Now is it wise to do this? Am I working the brass too much? Are they safe to shoot? These are just plinking rounds for busting clays set in the berms at most 20 meters. Since the Blackhawk comes in a convertible model that shoots 9mm I assume the smaller diameter bullet works reasonably well.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

Use your 38 sizing die but expand with your 9mm die, seat and crimp with 38 die.

Your 9mm expander won't open the inside diameter of the case as much as the 38 expander will.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

You might try "neck sizing" the .38 brass in the 9mm die. Partially size the case, only as far down as where the base of the bullet will be when seated. Then you'll be sure you have enough neck tension on the bullet, after Chambered's excellent suggestion of expanding with the 9mm die. I first read about this when researching .45 Colt loads and have tried it with success in my .45 Colts.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger wrote:
You might try "neck sizing" the .38 brass in the 9mm die. Partially size the case, only as far down as where the base of the bullet will be when seated. Then you'll be sure you have enough neck tension on the bullet, after Chambered's excellent suggestion of expanding with the 9mm die. I first read about this when researching .45 Colt loads and have tried it with success in my .45 Colts.
That is what I am now doing including using the 9mm expander. It works well.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

Keep in mind the 9×19mm Parabellum is a tapered case not a straight wall.....this may complicate things when trying to use the sizing die !!!

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

If you run a 9mm case through a carbide die it is no longer tapered.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

Confused Not mine ....they still have taper !!!

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MacD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

You guys got me thinking so I sampled 3 cases. (mouth, mid case (2 locations on 38 cases) and case head just above extraction groove)

9mm sized in carbide Lee die: .372 - .377 - .386

38 spl in 9mm carbide Lee die: .372 - .372 - .372 - .376

38 spl in 38spl carbide Lee die: .375 - .375 - .375 - .376

It makes perfect sense to me....................... I think. The longer 38 case gets squeezed down to the smallest diameter in the 9mm die as 3/4 of the case passes this point in the die. The 9mm case, being shorter, only has the top part of the case pass through the die's narrowest point and the remainer of the case is tapered by the die as per normal. My goal based upon the advice above is to only size the first third of the 38 spl case in the 9mm die.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Crimping (9mm Copper Plated in 38 Special Cases Reply with quote

Well, I stand corrected, at least with my Hornady die. Apparently the titanium nitride "ring" is tapered in that die. Its really more of a sleeve than a ring. Other dies I'd looked at had a ring like a doughnut.so I knew they weren't tapering anything.

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