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410 nasty's
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

I slice the top off 410 high brass 3 inch 11/16 4 shot rounds. dump the pellets out. I take 2 lead 38 wad cutters I cast myself and they drop perfectly inside the plastic wad. Then I top it off with either 10mm wad cutters I also made myself, or 40S&W jacketed hollow points. Now this part I don't know how you would do it, unless you made your own tool, but I used a part of an old sawed off barrel I got in a bunch of old Herters reloading supplies from my grandpa before he passed away back in the 1980s. This homemade tool is around 45acp in size, around 3 inches long and has a fast tapered wall inside. So by placing it over the top of the shell and beating on it with a lead filled leather mallet it crimps the end over very nicely and secure. Each load of lead weighed slightly over 1 ounce. More than I can find in store bought 410 rounds.

For the test I used a 2 foot round piece of 1/8 inch steel from about 25 feet away. Each one of these test home defense 410 rounds I shot from my Rossi Tuffy tore the crap out of that steel plate. All 3 slugs hit close enough to the same spot they ripped at least a 2 inch hole into the metal. I was pleasantly impressed.
I kick was nothing to worry about, and I only had one bulge to the point of needing to run a cleaning rod through the deadly end to pop it out. Which makes me think I might need to just put 2 bullets in and a wad to keep the back pressure down. Or not.. lol
For a comparison I also fired some Winchester 410 Ga. 2 1/2" 3 Pellets #000 Buck
into the steel . Not even close to the damage my home loads did. And , they cost a lot more than the Federal highbrass does. And the bullets I cast are next to free. Have over 200 pounds of antimony lead that was given to me, as was the casting dies, electric lead pots and more. So basically those things are still free and will be for a while. excluding the cost of the electric to run the smelting pot.

and to think, up until recently I kind of considered a 410 to be more a limited use gun.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:50 am    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

be very carefull with what you do. most rifled slugs for .410 are about 87 grains in weight that Ive seen. I myself load buckshot using 3" shells and the same charge of powder as for shot loads. if you go over the weight of the load to be shifted you are pushing your luck......
there are plenty of buckshot loads out there which will be safe to use, it would be a shame to blow up your gun not to mention yourself. if your tuffy has no choke why not use .45 long colt through it if you feel you need more oomph?

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

D1D...1 oz is far too heavy for a .410 load. The maximum safe load is 11/16 oz. If you must use cast wad cutters (which I don't see as a problem), do yourself and your gun a favour and keep the load down to that weight.

There are a couple of different methods for crimping the .410 shell...either a folded top crimp or a roll crimp. I use both depending on the load. If you opt for a roll crimp, then you will need to make some "over shot" wads (I use discs cut from a PET pop bottle), although with the WC you may not need this disc. Check out this website for more info:

www.slugshooting.com/id32.html

You don't mention what powder you are using...I use Alliant 410...a purpose designed powder for the .410 shotshell.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

While remington & winchester do make 1oz loads for the 410, they are at reduced velocity. I don't see trying to make a 20 gauge out of a 410 when it does nicely with 1/2oz or 11/16oz loads.

One of my favorite loads for the 410 3" is 11/16oz. on top of 15grs H110 using Rem. 209P primers with a Rem. SP410 wad that chronies at 1100fps.

What powder and how much are you using for your load?

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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

Very Happy I''d like to see somebody come up with a airodynamically stabilized sabot round for the 410 like a scaled down version of the 12 airodynamic sabots.The rifled style-i don't much care about!

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

Trbl, that's easy: you start as Dan1dad describes, but instead of these .38 wadcutters, you put an arrow in your barrel in front of the shell-without-shot. The weight is about the same and it sure will stabilize during the flight. I only hope that the feathers will survive the burning powder...
when you need higher velocity, you just cut the arrow shorter. Some extra work to put the feathers and the extra point (no need for the nock), but your cost/bullet would decrease a lot.

Just an idea: has anyone ever tried to use a lead round ball and put a small piece of rope in its bottom? In my mind it should work OK: heavy lead in front and light rope at the end to stabilize... might be a good idea for Hubel who is already shooting all kind of nasty stuff Smile
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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
D1D...1 oz is far too heavy for a .410 load. The maximum safe load is 11/16 oz. If you must use cast wad cutters (which I don't see as a problem), do yourself and your gun a favour and keep the load down to that weight.

There are a couple of different methods for crimping the .410 shell...either a folded top crimp or a roll crimp. I use both depending on the load. If you opt for a roll crimp, then you will need to make some "over shot" wads (I use discs cut from a PET pop bottle), although with the WC you may not need this disc. Check out this website for more info:

www.slugshooting.com/id32.html

You don't mention what powder you are using...I use Alliant 410...a purpose designed powder for the .410 shotshell.


powders just whatever is supplied in the factory federal shells Im modifying.

I agree though, 1 oz is heavy and I would need to cut them back. but this was mainly done just because I can, not because I have to. Like others said, there are many factory loads that will work just fine.

The Tuffy isn't rifled.
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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
Trbl, that's easy: you start as Dan1dad describes, but instead of these .38 wadcutters, you put an arrow in your barrel in front of the shell-without-shot. The weight is about the same and it sure will stabilize during the flight. I only hope that the feathers will survive the burning powder...
when you need higher velocity, you just cut the arrow shorter. Some extra work to put the feathers and the extra point (no need for the nock), but your cost/bullet would decrease a lot.

Just an idea: has anyone ever tried to use a lead round ball and put a small piece of rope in its bottom? In my mind it should work OK: heavy lead in front and light rope at the end to stabilize... might be a good idea for Hubel who is already shooting all kind of nasty stuff Smile

Ive seen shorter crossbow bolts with aluminum fletching. That might work.. :-)
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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

check out what these guys put through a 410!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-lyk1WyyJ4


also check this out. All I am saying is that with some hardware store parts like pvc compression fitting with a notch cut out to accommodate the front sight, and a brass nipple that a filter screws on you could make this.. and it works.. say if you were to use a colt woodsman 22 it would sounds like a pellet pistol, if you hold your thumb over the bolt to prevent the blow back. if you let it rock, its still quiet enough that anyone just inside the back door the a house cant even hear it if one were to shoot it off the back deck at night.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=haiqFcIXTqs


Last edited by dan1dad on Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

if you are casting your own you could melt the shot you take out. what weight are your wadcutters??
a .45 long colt round would be a safer bet as long as your tuffy isnt choked.
now as for the .410 rifled solids being under powerfull.....
87 grain projectile doing 1450fps = .243winchester at longer range.
when I get my stuff unpacked I can have a look in my lyman load manual and dig out those buckshot loadings if you want them.

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Last edited by Elvis on Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

dan1dad wrote:
powders just whatever is supplied in the factory federal shells Im modifying

Shocked Shocked This is not good, do you have any shogun reloading manuals? If not your pushing yours and the guns luck. Each component change in a shotgun shell can raise or lower pressure by 3000psi to 5000psi if not matched with published loads.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:


Just an idea: has anyone ever tried to use a lead round ball and put a small piece of rope in its bottom? In my mind it should work OK: heavy lead in front and light rope at the end to stabilize... might be a good idea for Hubel who is already shooting all kind of nasty stuff Smile
now that is an old trick when loading shotgun shell for your mates on opening weekend of duck shooting. a small piece of lead with a pretty pink ribbon attached and maybe some glitter for packing. quack quack BANG...????WTF....???? "You BA#%^%#D!!!" Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

Ominivision1 wrote:
dan1dad wrote:
powders just whatever is supplied in the factory federal shells Im modifying

Shocked Shocked This is not good, do you have any shogun reloading manuals? If not your pushing yours and the guns luck. Each component change in a shotgun shell can raise or lower pressure by 3000psi to 5000psi if not matched with published loads.


totally agree. I only made 4 of them, shot 4 of them, and if I do make more, they will be vastly different. Even though the tuffy did hold up well, I don't want to push my luck.
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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

Omni, I have lyman 49th , and lee red book, a couple others. Problem is , I don't think any of them cover shotgun. I need to get them though. The box of reloading things I received from my late grandfather has all the Herters dies for 12 and 20 gauge reloading. :-( no 410 dies though. That would be great as they are the most expensive to buy. Im still going to load up some brass for it. I have about a 50 of 303 brass with boxer primer pockets, not the dreaded berdan primers. I do have around 20 with bastard military "Berdan" (?) primers too and was thinking of trying something. I'll run it past you guys here and see what you think. I haven't yanked a primer out yet to see what the bottom of the brass looks like yet, but
what if I use a end mill bit the same size as the existing pocket and mill it with a flat bottom, removing the anvil on the brass. Then, I move up to the larger end mill bit and open the hole up to accommodate a shotgun primer?


Im just brain fartin here on the 303 for 410 hulls, doesn't mean Im going to do it. I will more than likely just purchase Magtech 410 brass and just load those up. Graft and Sons has a box of new unprimed brass 25 for $23. Those would likely last me a lifetime as much as I use the 410 right now.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 410 nasty's Reply with quote

Found my manual. Most 2 3/4" loads are 4x #00 pellets and 3" are 5x #00 pellets. Your tuffy should be modified choked. I loaded some 2 3/4" hulls with 6x #0 pellets they are .30cal not .32 so much lighter. Being a single break open you may be able to get away with hand loading with a existing star crimp as its not hard to get em to reclose. Primers go in snug by pushing down on flat surface. Let me know if you want load info and i will pm it.

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