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Finicky Rifles
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

Howdy. How many guys out there reload for a finicky rifle. I was curious of how small of a change was made to get good results Question I think i have one and was interested in other peoples experiences . Any rags to riches stories Smile

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Gil Martin
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: M1 Garand Reply with quote

My nephew was having a hard time getting any groups at 100 yard matches with his reloads. The local gunsmith was asked to recrown the muzzle. He declined and pointed out the rifling was missing from the last inch of barrel and the throat was eroded. He rebarreled the rifle and it shoots like a champ. All the best...
Gil

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grimel
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

What ever you come up with this will top it. My buddy has a S&W M52. It will shoot 1 hole groups with about any combination of bullseye and wadcutters - IF you use nickel cases. Try a brass case and it won't keep them in the 9 ring.

Freakiest thing I've ever seen.

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calsibley
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

I don't think there are too mny panaceas out there. I rarely find a bullet or powder load that makes a huge difference in my groiup sizes. Mostly it comes in small increments as you find a better bullet, a better powder load or bullet seating depth. Often your improvements come because of an ideal, windless day with little, if any, mirage. Sometimes it's nothing more than your having a good shooting day without your really knowing why. It can be a frustrating hobby, and a most enjoyable one as well. Best wishes to all.

Cal - Montreal
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longwalker
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

My only suggestion would be only change one thing at a time. Keep good records and go slowly. Make sure all the mechanical parts are tight and properly mounted. I struggled with an open group for a while before a found one of the scope mount base screws had bottomed out, just as the should made contact with the counterbore. Presto problem solved.

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calsibley
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

Some calibers are notoriously finicky to load for. I have a Remington 700BDL in .17Rem. that will make you pull your hair out. With 20gr. bullets it won't do well in any kind of wind. In ideal conditions it will print my first group of the day into about .25" (5 at 100yds.). Then I may as well put the rifle back in the case. Even if I give it a good cleaning afterwards I won't get groups much under an inch. I've glass bedded the action, floated the barrel, lighgtened the triggerl This rifle has me stumped, always has. The .22 Hornet isn't much better. It's okay once you find a good, accurate load for it, but ooooh getting there can be a heartache. I suspect many of us have little delinquents like this. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
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Blaine
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

I think the best way to find a load for a temperamental gun is to shoot through a chronograph. When the SD (standard deviation) is as low as you can get it, you're pretty much there. It will tell you a lot even when there is wind, shooter error or whatever. If the velocity is very close shot to shot your gun likes the load. Consistent velocity = consistent barrel harmonics = accuracy

Blaine

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calsibley
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

I wonder if often what we consider a finicky rifle isn't merely a case of matching the correct components for our load, and also understanding the effects of the twist rate of our barrel. For example, my .243Win. is an older Savage 110 with a 1 in 10" barrel twist. That rifle is bloody awesome with 70 to 85gr. bullets, yet doesn't shoot 100gr. worth a damn. I'm doing good to get 1" groups (5 at 100yds) with them. It took me a long time to realize that my rifle simply wouldn't shoot that weight and configuration well. Another element is MV. My .22-250 is a tack driver if I keep the velocities to around 3600fps. Step it up to 3800-3900 and accuracy goes to hell in a handbasket. Maybe the manyufacturers could include bullet and powder, velocities etc. preferrences with the rifles to save shooters a little heartache discovering these elements. It's surprising how often an inaccurate rifle is nothing more than our not understanding what will work best in that particular firearm. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
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grimel
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

calsibley wrote:
Maybe the manyufacturers could include bullet and powder, velocities etc. preferrences with the rifles to save shooters a little heartache discovering these elements.

Well, the powder choice is on the individual rifle. I can't see very many people wanting to pay extra for XYZ arms company to pay someone to research powder for each rifle. Barell twist (which gives you a very good idea where to start with bullets) is with almost every rifle. Savage does give bullet weights for each cal (based on twist). Velocity, twist, and bullet design combine to get the accuracy.

That 22-250 might shoot fine at higher velocities - IF you find the right bullet for the twist, but, it's probably not worth the effort to find it.

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BillPa
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

When I first put the 270-08AI together the little bugger wouldn't shoot under an inch and a half. Its built on a '70 action,22" -.560' muzzle-1:12 twist all in an MPI pillared stock. I checked,rechecked and rechecked again and couldn't find anything wrong. Then the little bulb lite up and I put a pressure point in , one inch long,one inch from the forend and wallah.... 6's. After some load tuning and a few more tweaks here and there, will shot consistantly keep'm in the low t mid .5s.

Grimel...Nickle cases ? That is a weird one!

Bill
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grimel
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

Yes it is weird. You can tell when he's loading for the 38 - those are the ONLY nickel cases he has and he double checks them clean! He's lost a die or two to slightly less than clean nickel!

I have some for super secret double probation bear/elephant loads in a 44mag revolver, but don't keep more than 50 or so cases.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Finicky Rifles Reply with quote

Used to reload pistol (.357 MAG) a few yrs back and spent many long but enjoyable hrs working up loads for target shooting.

Using a Ransom Rest, and taking my reloading press to the range, went through many hundreds of loads to work out which one worked for my gun.

Religiously used Federal primers and Bullseye powder with cast 150gn SWC. Weighed each bullet and hand weighed each charge, checked each case for consistent dimensions, including primer pocket and cleaned each case between reloading. Picked a starting load from the manual and then started altering it by one tenth a grain in both directions and watched the group size. Found that a tenth of a grain could, and often did, make a big difference in both group size and point of impact. When I could no longer get Bullseye I went through the same process with WST and an aussie powder, Mulwex AP50 (think that may be marketed as Hogdon in the US), to find a load that worked.

Worked for me and I found that my S & W 586 was capable of keeping all shots very comfortably in the 10 ring at 50m. It was then up to me to do my part, but that is another story.

Going through the same process with my Weatherby .243 using Mulwex AS2208 (Varget in the US).

Good luck and good shooting.

Remember, "Time spent not shooting or fishing is time wasted".

Cheers, Vince

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