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Full choke's and Steel shot
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
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Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:10 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

It surprises me that guns that are proofed for steel shot have problems with the full choke. I would have thought that they would test the barrels with the tightest choke fitted to ensure there would not be any problems.

I'll be interested to see what the Mossberg manufacturers have to say about the damage.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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slimjim
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Joined: May 16, 2009
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Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

I'm not surprised this happened. A choke for steel needs to have and extension so the "choke" portion is outside the barrel. Maybe DAllan's shotgun was purchased before that lesson was learned. The steel chokes I have bought for me Mossberg 500 are like that.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

Briley chokes are the way to go...they are the ducks guts. Most of the shotgunners I know out here swear by them and regularly order sets from the US. They are also available with a form of compensator on some chokes.

I'll have a look to see if I have the website bookmarked from which they buy. The prices are apparently quite reasonable and competitive.

Cheers, Vince

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Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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Elvis
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Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
but sometimes there are higher rules...

it all started with the 10 commandements. Everything they made afterwards is just to have a legal excuse to some not to live by the 10 commandements...
and to give big money to lawyers.

you know the latest? Here in Belgium they had to let a man, who shot his grillfriend 2x in the head, go free because the judge extended his preliminary yailtime with 3 months and legally only 1 month was allowed.

Do you still think they have to make extra laws concerning what I can use to hunt with? Do you really think they are more expert than me in that department?
well thats a good point and could open a whole other can of worms. if we really just want a duck to eat well you could shoot them on the water as thats a very efficent way to harvest them or just shoot them with a fully suppressed .22 either way you will get a dead duck. maybe even roll out the punt and let rip with 1 1/2 lb of #BB if that really tickles your fancy nobody could argue that it kills well just look at why these methods were taken away from our options. we nearly wiped out the ducks. yes the whole steel issue gets people worked up. but it does kill well and I dont have a problem using it now that I use faster loads, sure pass shooting swans at 75yards is not an option but I wasnt crash hot with lead at that range either!!!!

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DallanC
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Joined: Jan 18, 2005
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Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
It surprises me that guns that are proofed for steel shot have problems with the full choke. I would have thought that they would test the barrels with the tightest choke fitted to ensure there would not be any problems.

Ditto....!!!

Quote::
I'll be interested to see what the Mossberg manufacturers have to say about the damage.

Cheers, Vince

Havent heard anything back yet. I might have to take Slim up on his offer.


-DallanC
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stovepipe
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Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

Steel = MOD max regardless of what the tube etc says. Anything bigger than #4 steel = IC max constriction, maaaaybe Mod in a pinch for #4 but #3 and up = IC or CYL. Steels too hard, too fast and too long in the 3" 20g for trying to squish it down and something has to give. It's usually the choke after the pattern's strung out and blown. You cant compress steel and it bottle-necks in the choke. Even if the choke lives yer patterns done.

I recommend Trulock Extended Hunter chokes HIGHLY, top machining, mine are cyro treated and super tough steel. I never used to pattern til recently but w/ some prodding from Elvis ( he's the man! Very Happy ) I spent some time and 3 boxes trying different stuff. I was suprised how nicely these chokes work in my Benelli 20g and I actually went more open from MOD to IC for upland and clays.

Last week I was killing clays, not breaking but smashing them with authority with the IC Trulock Extended Hunter choke using the 20g 7/8oz load in #7.5 and #8 , 16y from the trap house will all sorts of different ammo makers. That makes the bird at least 30y from the house if I'm on it fast, 40y if I'm slow. That's about the effective kill range for this load too. Every hit was a BLAM, tiny shards maybe 4 peics. hit the ground. Not quite a powder but it was destroyed.

At the back fence, which is at least 30y from the trap house, I was smashing clays with the MOD Trulock extended hunter with the same 20g 7/8oz #8 loads- way father than the effective killing range on game but it proved my point and the expert shooters with the big 12g FULL and X-FULL chokes were scratching their heads. By the time my shot got to the house the bird was at least 50y out from me, proly more.

I was once of the school tighter is better but not anymore. At the effective range, killing range of the given shot size I'm finding better results w/ mor e open chokes, it stresses the load less, less stress = less flyers = more shot arriving at the same time = clean hits. Whatever I'm using in lead @ 7/8oz if I go to steel I open it up at least one maybe two sizes. For #3 steel I automatically use the IC. Steel's just too hard to compress and again someting has to give and the 20g is a stringer anyways and overcompressing the load amplifies this.

*** Also check the choke for snug every 5 rounds or after every barrel heat cycle. Gasses get under it and foul the threads. Back off 1/4 turn then sung. If it's stuck- stop and yank it, insapect clean and relube. If left unchecked it ruinds the land from flame extching and fouling. Bring a spare in one size more open too.


Last edited by stovepipe on Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

Stovey, this happens not so often, but I completely agree with you Smile
Ever tried to shoot a clay at about 1-2 m (or yards) above the ground? Not where it's leaving the pit, but when it's coming down? That's long distance... have to admit: I've never tried that with steel shot.
But I know you don't need a trapgun nor a full choke to be able to do that once you learn where to shoot.
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stovepipe
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Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
Ever tried to shoot a clay at about 1-2 m (or yards) above the ground? Not where it's leaving the pit, but when it's coming down? .

Yes- Got into it with another shooter (imagine that) about the brake point. I said you lead low. He said high as the shot will drop. I told him lead is lead, you lead the bird to where it's going to be. Aim high on a dropper and it goes over the top. He spent the 5th station on two rounds shooining over the birds. If the bird is falling you shoot under it- lead is lead. Shoot where it's going to BE not where it's BEEN. He couldnt grasp it at first and he's a way better shotgunner than me!
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Elvis
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Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

great to hear you have got your self sorted there Stovie. dropping birds are always hard work, ducks are no different better to let em land and spook them off. pity the clays wouldnt lift off again.

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stovepipe
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Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

But, the good thing about clays is ya dont have to go pluck them from a snake infested thorn bush....BZZZZZZZZZ! Run away!
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

Have you heard anything from Mossberg?

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stovepipe
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Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

BTW- YMMV and my observations apply only to field and waterfowl loads. Not turkey or vamint loads.
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DallanC
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Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

Ominivision1 wrote:
Have you heard anything from Mossberg?

Nothing Sad


-DallanC
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Elvis
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Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

maybe send them another email and sort of drop a hint that you are the admin on a website of 11005 members who are all reading about the great service and are all waiting for to hear the reply from mossberg!!!!

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject: Re: Full choke's and Steel shot Reply with quote

Good idea Elvis, lets hope Mossbergs service is better than Bass Pro.

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