HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 434
BOT: 1
Total: 435
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Home
06: Your Account
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Your Account
13: Forums
14: Home
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Your Account
20: Your Account
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Your Account
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: News
30: Home
31: Forums
32: Home
33: Photo Albums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Your Account
39: Forums
40: Reloading Database
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Photo Albums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Your Account
47: Photo Albums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Photo Albums
53: Photo Albums
54: Forums
55: Home
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Home
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Your Account
65: Forums
66: Your Account
67: Home
68: Your Account
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Home
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Home
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Home
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Your Account
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Photo Albums
98: Forums
99: Home
100: Photo Albums
101: Home
102: Your Account
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Your Account
112: Home
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Home
116: Home
117: Your Account
118: Your Account
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Your Account
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Your Account
133: Home
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Your Account
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Photo Albums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Your Account
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Home
153: Home
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Photo Albums
158: Home
159: Forums
160: Your Account
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Your Account
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: Forums
172: Your Account
173: Home
174: Home
175: Forums
176: Photo Albums
177: Your Account
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Home
184: Forums
185: Your Account
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Your Account
192: Your Account
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Your Account
198: Forums
199: Home
200: Forums
201: Photo Albums
202: Forums
203: Forums
204: Home
205: Home
206: Your Account
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Your Account
210: Home
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Forums
214: Forums
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Forums
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Your Account
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Home
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Your Account
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Photo Albums
248: Forums
249: Home
250: Your Account
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Forums
254: Photo Albums
255: Home
256: Photo Albums
257: Forums
258: Your Account
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Your Account
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Home
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Photo Albums
270: Your Account
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Forums
278: Forums
279: Forums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Forums
284: Your Account
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Home
291: Photo Albums
292: Photo Albums
293: Your Account
294: Your Account
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Photo Albums
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Forums
304: Forums
305: Statistics
306: Your Account
307: Home
308: Your Account
309: Forums
310: Forums
311: Forums
312: Home
313: Home
314: Your Account
315: Home
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Forums
319: Home
320: Forums
321: Forums
322: Forums
323: Your Account
324: Forums
325: Your Account
326: Forums
327: Forums
328: Forums
329: Your Account
330: Forums
331: Your Account
332: Forums
333: Forums
334: Forums
335: Photo Albums
336: Photo Albums
337: Statistics
338: Forums
339: Photo Albums
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Forums
347: Your Account
348: Forums
349: Your Account
350: Photo Albums
351: Forums
352: Home
353: Forums
354: Forums
355: Forums
356: Forums
357: Home
358: Forums
359: Forums
360: Forums
361: Forums
362: Forums
363: Forums
364: Forums
365: Home
366: Your Account
367: Home
368: Forums
369: Your Account
370: Forums
371: Home
372: Forums
373: Forums
374: Photo Albums
375: Forums
376: Home
377: Forums
378: Forums
379: Forums
380: Your Account
381: Home
382: Home
383: Photo Albums
384: Forums
385: Forums
386: Forums
387: Home
388: Forums
389: Forums
390: Forums
391: Forums
392: Forums
393: Forums
394: Forums
395: Forums
396: Forums
397: Forums
398: Forums
399: Forums
400: Home
401: Forums
402: Forums
403: Home
404: Home
405: Forums
406: Forums
407: Forums
408: Forums
409: Your Account
410: Forums
411: Forums
412: Forums
413: Forums
414: Forums
415: Your Account
416: Forums
417: Forums
418: Your Account
419: Forums
420: Your Account
421: Photo Albums
422: Photo Albums
423: Forums
424: Forums
425: Forums
426: Forums
427: Forums
428: Home
429: Forums
430: Forums
431: Forums
432: Forums
433: Your Account
434: Photo Albums
  BOT:
01: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

AR Feeling the need
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3323
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

StoveP you can sell it, you just can't make it with the intent of selling it. The English language is elegant that way. Sell it to a friend or hand it down to your family, don't know if a gun shop would want it but actually all they have to do is put a serial number on it and record it in their books.


Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Suz,
The builder has to pay for the registration of the serial number when it is transfered.
Doesn't matter who it is transfered to or how. The $200 tax is required to transfer the firearm if it was manufactured after a specific date.
I had to look at the ATFE site and go through a couple of pages to find it hidden toward the bottom of a page. If you make a phone call they will cite it for you without the chase.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
dhc4ever
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2944
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:59 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Oh this just gets better and better, you Ba#$!@*&.
You can build your own semi auto in exotic or common calipers, doesnt need a S/N unless you sell it?
And the gubbermint dont care?

We need a progrom against politicians, journos and inner city latte sipping anti gun intellectuals.

Now going for a beer and a good cry.......

_________________
Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Pete whose crying into his beer wrote:
...Now going for a beer and a good cry.......

Me too mate... Sad Crying or Very sad Sad Crying or Very sad

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

dhc4ever wrote:
Oh this just gets better and better, you Ba#$!@*&.
You can build your own semi auto in exotic or common calipers, doesnt need a S/N unless you sell it?
And the gubbermint dont care?

[[[We need a progrom against politicians, journos and inner city latte sipping anti gun intellectuals.]]]

Now going for a beer and a good cry.......

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel! Laughing

+1000
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Come to America dhc4ever...We could use a few good Aussies here.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Suzanne wrote:
StoveP you can sell it, you just can't make it with the intent of selling it. The English language is elegant that way. Sell it to a friend or hand it down to your family, don't know if a gun shop would want it but actually all they have to do is put a serial number on it and record it in their books.


Suz


(no disrespect Suz.... Very Happy ...but here goes)

It's a "wobble law". Poorly worded. Lots of room for the ATF to slap your hand and make you life pretty miserable. If you made it, has no S#, just keep it or destroy it. If you want to sell it? Tons of hoops, like a normal DROS has, esp. one with no S# post 1968.

Sounds nit-picky but....that's how I roll and I won't advocate doing anything that may or may not skirt a law.

How I read the laws?

1- I will not sell or exchange one without a S#. Nor should anyone. Period.

2- Also- when machining the lower, YOU must do it yourself, no "straw machinist" for hire, etc., that's the whole thing with building your own. Period.

That's how I see this whole thing. I'm not alone!
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Hell...If I still lived in the USSR of C I would have to serialize my "spit wad shooter" and my "clothespin bean shooter".

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

They banned straws, rubber bands, clothes pins and light bulbs!

NEVER going back. Ever.

(almost forgot)

STUPID LIBERALS!!!! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

ROFL Me 'neither!!

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Mornin' Bushboss!

Barns mucked out, 3'rd pot on the brew, tractor will be serviced by lunch.

Then I'll go rat whompin in the barn with the .22 and some #12. If there's a pitchfork leanin against the door, I'm in there huntin (and patching .45cal holes- since when do rats climb walls 7 feet up??? Geez!), so you and that hog leg stay out!
Back to top
View user's profile
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3323
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Calling the local ATF office in my state to clarify. He said that the intent is the important part of the law. He gave an example of if you build one gun this year and sell it next year that's probably not built with the intent to sell. If you build three guns and sell them, you're probably manufacturing with the intent to sell. If you build a gun and sell it then build the exact same gun, that may be intent. Anyway, he said there's no number, its all arbitrary and their opinion.

With regards to marking;
The agent I spoke with said he couldn't find any information where an individual who manufactures a firearm is required to mark it. I asked him about the marking it (should it be sold or lawfully transferred in the future) with regards to how an FFL would enter an unmarked weapon in their books. He said they would enter it similar to a gun made before 1968 when serial numbers weren't required and that my name would be listed as the manufacturer.

So, according to the agent, I can manufacture a gun for personal use. I can later at some point in the future decide I no longer want it and sell or trade it (so long as the intent when building it is NOT to sell it). I am not required to mark it in any way before sale


Just to make me more secure about the subject I went to the ATF website and found this;

When does a receiver need to have markings and/or serial numbers?
Receivers that meet the definition of a “firearm” must have markings, including a serial number. See 27 CFR § 478.92 (Firearm manufacturers marking requirements).

And if you go to the above mentioned section of the regs and read them they're referring to Licensed Manufacturers of Firearms. The entire thing is worded that way. I'm not a licensed manufacturer.

What is ATF doing in regard to people making firearms?
There are no federal restrictions on an individual making a firearm for personal use, as long as it does not violate the GCA or National Firearms Act (NFA)......(which is all about machineguns, barrel lengths, silencers)

Can an individual make large quantities of firearms and sell them?
If an individual is “engaged in the business” (defined below) as a manufacturer or seller of firearms then that person must obtain a federal firearms license. In addition, manufacturers have a variety of specific responsibilities under the Gun Control Act, such as including a serial number and other markings on all firearms.

Under 18 U.S.C. 921 (a)(21)(A), the term “engaged in the business” means— as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured.

. Can anyone make firearms and sell them?
With certain exceptions, and subject to any state law that might apply, as long as an individual is not prohibited from possessing a firearm, he or she can make a firearm for personal use. If an individual wants to manufacture and sell firearms, he or she is required to obtain a license, and mark each firearm manufactured in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92. [18 U.S.C. 923(i), 26 U.S.C. 5822]

State laws take precedent over federal laws in every matter. Typically there are no state laws that are more lax than federal laws. If there isn’t a specific state law, federal law is the unwritten state law.

So it's like I said, as long as you don't intend on manufacturing for sale, then it's another ball game of licensing and marking. After a few years of use and I'm tired of it and want to sell it, I see no written regulation that prohibits it or even mentions it. All of the marking regulations are aimed at licensed manufacturers, not unlicensed hobbyists.

If I were you and felt nervous about it, and I wanted to sell it, you could always disassemble the lower, keep the parts and upper for sale.


Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Ok, I had the "business of manufacture for profit" part screwed up in my head I guess.
Suz, it looks like you are correct. Thanks for your diligence!
Now I have to buy some tooling for my lathe. Smile

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3323
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Sorry Paulie it's in my nature to poke everyone in the back so they sit up straight (and I know it's annoying). Just didn't want people to think it's a risky proposition cause it's really fun to ream out a lower and be able to use it. I did a couple of the plastic ones and used my drill press with an x-y vice and milling bit. Don't know if it would work on aluminum very well but the plastic lowers are good enough for me. The place I got them from had a bunch of factory seconds or over-runs and they cost about $25 or $30 ea. so I couldn't pass it up.


Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: AR Feeling the need Reply with quote

Hi Mom....

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.