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Why a Premium bullet?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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POP!!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

This was posted on another site by a very established proffesional guide. and if this is not the truth,I don't know what is!

Quote:

None of the expensive gear you bought for this trip is of any use at this moment. The effort of preparation is meaningless now. The weeks of planning and anticipation, the stress with your job and family over your lack of attention is behind you. Everything you have done to get to the point of pulling that trigger seems like slow motion as you watch the next split second to see what the results will be. Do you really trust the bullet which is the one single thing that ties the success of the entire event and all the preparation and planning with your anticipation. It has just left the barrel of your rifle at 3000 feet per second and has a retail value of about 25cents. Was this a prudent choice? Think now, you have at least many thousands of dollars involved in this trip including the gear. Yet your only link to the success of bringing the whole trip together is that little piece of copper and lead streaking through the air towards the trophy you have been dreaming of for a year, or maybe a lifetime! Isn’t that bullet worth more then a few pennies? I have heard countless times that premium bullets are too expensive and plain old bullets have been working for years. Well to that I say hand carved wooden arrows were used successfully for far longer then bullets but you choose to use a rifle! There is only one thing that connects the hunter to the trophy, it’s not the $1000.00 binoculars, or the $1000.00 rifle, or the $20,000 camper, or the $40,000 4X4 diesel pickup truck or the goretex outerwear and boots, the rangefinder, and video camera, nope it’s just that little piece of lead and copper you just send away at 3000 fps!

To me they are!


From Experience once again!!!

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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Hunt of a lifetime with a few k tied up in it I agree .. OMG I agreed with YOU ...
Jack

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popgun
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Yep, there is more attention to detail and the construction process in premium bullets. If you want the best performance on the hunt of a lifetime premium bullets are well worth the money.
But, I wonder why you still find so much factory ammo in the northlands where the critters are of the huge variety. They still work but I think the premium's work just a bit better. Premium's shoot more accurately, and expansion is controled better and that could make the difference in wounding or locking down a critter.

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freedyf
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

It's not the cost of the premium bullets, it's particular shape, it's so called reputation, the noise of the blast, the number of rounds you shoot, it's terminal velocity, but the strike of the bullet which matters. squeez'em off like it matters. Freedy

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

I'm not sure that I completely buy into that concept. The only difference from a good bullet and a bad one is: Does it open up as it should when it hits the game? Does it get deep enough penetration? And is it accurate? If it preforms as it should...What's the difference other then hipe...There are many not Primium bullets out there that will do just as good loaded correctly and fired from the proper firearm for the job at hand...I have cleanly taken elk with a .30-30 using a Remington Core-lokt 170gr FN.

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

I think average bullet construction has improved over the years and what was "premium" years ago is fairly standard now... but really the advancements in cutting edge "premium" bullets are soo good now it really is worth the slight expense to give that extra safety margin.

I've shot some great accurate bullets that IMO, failed in specific cases. I think generally a Deer sized animal is more forgiving when it comes to bullet choice, but take on an elk and you really need to give strong thought towards a premium bullet that is designed for worst case, deep penetration through heavy bone.

We all strive for that "clean shot" on a big game animal but facts are sometimes we dont end up with a "clean hit" and its a case like that where a premium bullet might make all the difference.

BTW: IMO the best budget "premium" bullet on the market is the Speer GrandSlams. Cheap but built really really sturdy. I prefer nosler Partitions overall though.


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1895ss
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

popgun wrote:
Yep, there is more attention to detail and the construction process in premium bullets. If you want the best performance on the hunt of a lifetime premium bullets are well worth the money.
But, I wonder why you still find so much factory ammo in the northlands where the critters are of the huge variety. They still work but I think the premium's work just a bit better. Premium's shoot more accurately, and expansion is controled better and that could make the difference in wounding or locking down a critter.

I do not agree with you. I have tried Nozler bullets in my 25-06 and I can tell you one thing for certain that plain old Hornady Interlock bullets are far more accurate than the Nozlers. Furthermore I have yet to shoot a deer at ranges up to 400 yrds that did not drop with one shot using Hornadys. I used to use Hornady 120 gr HP's but for the last couple of years have used 117 gr BTSP Hornadys and have had excellent results. As far as I'm concerned Nozlers are most certainly not worth the money. It's all about bullet placement, Nozler are not accurate enough for me. By the way my 25-06 shoots .5 inch groups at 100 yrds with Hornadys and I'm lucky to get 1 inch groups with Nozlers. wtf

Dallan, I've had no problem with penetration on Elk with 405 GR Remington soft points or 350 gr Hornady RN reloads on Elk out of my 45-70....... No premium bullet needed...... wtf
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squirrelbait
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:24 am    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Not as much experience as most of you folks but my experience tells me that I need to shoot as much as possible both in the field and at the range to do my part. If I am confident that I can do my part then I know I do not need a premium bullet. I have passed on several very nice blacktails because I was uncomfortable with the 120yd shot with my contender. The bullet was not even I thought. I buy the bullets I can affort to shoot as much as I possibly can. The confidence and know limits count.
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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Howdy. I agree with Dallan about bullet construction it has come so far. All major manufactures make a " premium bullet " and there regular bullets are much better than years ago. I personly have never had any need to look any farther then Nosler, they do all I need. I think a premium bullet would pay off on a bad angle shot where the bullet has to travel father through muscle and bone to reach the vitals.
Joe

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popgun
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

One sure fact is that every gun has it's likes and dislikes. Noslers do not shoot best in all of my guns either and like you Hornady's do the job in those that dislike Noslers. I have two rifles that won't group Hornady or Nosler's but like Sierra's. That's why reloading is interesting and sometimes frustrating. You just have to find the medicine the rifle likes. That continues into powder and primer selection. Then there is one rifle that I have that likes one weight bullet in one brand and another weight bullet in another brand.

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POP!!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

I trust "just about" every bullet out there except Sierra. I only trust them on Prairie dogs and paper. That is it! Evil or Very Mad

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

POP!! wrote:
I trust "just about" every bullet out there except Sierra. I only trust them on Prairie dogs and paper. That is it!

BUT! If you are hunting Paper Prairie Dogs they are exceptional. Very Happy
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

O K Dallan...That was my line... Very Happy Very Happy

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roklok
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

I believe the lighter the caliber/cartridge for the game being hunted the more important the quality of the bullet.For deer with the 243 Win I use Nosler partitions.I had very good success and some dramatic kills with the Sierra Gameking 225 grain in my 35 Whelen so I figured it would be a decent deer bullet in my 270.Wrong! I was using the 130 grain Gameking and shot a small whitetail doe that probably weighed 70 pounds in the shoulder and was puzzled when she turned and ran.After a long tracking job and a little bit of luck I found her about 300 yards away. After skinning her I discovered that the bullet blew apart in the muscle of her shoulder,didnt even hit bone, and only a small fragment entered the lungs.The shoulder looked like a grenade hit it. In this caliber I think this bullet should be limited to nothing bigger than coyotes.Too soft for big game especially at higher velocitys.I now use Hornaday interlocks in the 270 and have had good success.If I were to take it elk hunting I would use 150 gr Nosler partitions but that aint gonna happen because I have much better elk rifles.
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Why a Premium bullet? Reply with quote

Let's see: to kill, a bullet needs to penetrate the outside of the game, hit some vital organ and, preferably exit. If the shot is postcard perfect, most any bullet fired from an appropriate-for-game cartridge can accomplish this. But, shots on game are seldom postcard perfect.

Raking quartering shots demand added penetration. Hitting the shoulder of an elk can, alone, stop some "regular" bullets, whereas, a "premium" bullet may be able to penetrate the shoulder and continue on to lungs/heart. An exiting bullet produces better blood trails if tracking is needed.

Eight years of guiding elk hunts has left me with little doubt that bullets with heavier jackets, bonded cores or all copper construction reduce significantly problems observed with standard bullets. Woodleigh, Speer Grand Slam and Barnes X & TSX have shown themselves among the best performers in anchoring big bulls. Most wounded bulls have been shot with standard (factory and reloaded) bullets, all in my limited experience with scores of kills -- 84 to be exact.

On deer and antelope while the premium bullets work fine, standard hunting bullets can get the job done seemingly just as well. Here the difference is often the amount of bloodshot meat. The premiums simply damage less meat while delivering consistent penetration and expansion. Too, there is the off chance of rear racking shots that challenge the ability of normal bullets.

So, why would someone compromise and use standard bullets on big game when premium bullets are readily available and reasonably priced? If I shoot it, I want it down and dead in the quickest manner possible.
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