New barrel, sending it back

Suzanne · Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:07 am Post subject: New barrel, sending it back

Can't believe my luck with gunsmiths...this guy is out of state, makes custom barrels and does some other gunsmithing...I sent him a Mauser 98 action to put a new barrel on and to fit some Warne scope mounts on. I get it back a month and half late, it's got sandblasting debris all through the bore and chamber and he didn't install the mounts. So an extra $20 to send it back to him....ya know if there was a guy here in town that I could trust to do good work I'd give him the business but no...this guy was recommended to me and he brags about his fast delivery times and blah blah blah....now I'll have to check the headspace (have no clue if he did that or not) and clean clean clean it to make sure the sand is gone....I'm sending it back this morning if FedEx is open today. Royally pees me off. I got it cold blued and was ready to prep it for bedding, but the mounts weren't fit..poooie

I also got some more parts for my AR15 and it's about done. I'm going to buy an Adams Arms piston kit and install it when I get some cash. I want put a free float tube on it but don't know what to buy. Seems to me it needs to fit over the piston kit, but I can't find any that are larger than 2". Maybe I can modify one, just have to get the kit and see what's what. The ones they recommend are pricey. It's about done tho. I've got everything else all put together. Need to buy a barrel wrench too. Any recommendations on a barrel wrench?

Spoooz

lesterg3 · Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

I'd really like to make some real smart a-- remarks, but I won't because I have had the same problem. Last time I needed smith work I drove 3 hours and spent two nights in a hotel and still got back a firearm that is less than I took in. Can't believe everything you hear and nothing on the search engines, well almost nothing.

Anymore if I cannot fix it I sell it, and buy something else, but then I am not into old stuff like some of you are.

Sorry for your aggravation and I hope you get it worked out to suit you soon.

slimjim · Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

Suzanne wrote:

I'm going to buy an Adams Arms piston kit and install it when I get some cash.

Suz, try running it with the gas impengement for a while. That design has matured for 50 years. I doubt that you will have any issues with it. I often hear that the piston systems cause more issues than they solve. Some custom manufactures don't warranty their AR barrels and bolts if the customer uses a piston system. Also, I have never seen a piston AR shoot better groups than a gas AR. Too many parts moving around.

Suzanne wrote:

I want put a free float tube on it but don't know what to buy.

There are a lot of option with free float tubes and it boils down to personal preference. They all feel different in your hand, some round, some oval, some with sharp edges and some smooth. I when to gun shows and tried my hand on as many as I could. The differences are significant. BTW, I found that my AR shot as well regardless of whether the barrel was freefloated or not. If you are not going to use a sling, it may not be worth it to buy the freefloat tube.

www.huntingnut.com/ind...free+float

Suzanne wrote:

Need to buy a barrel wrench too. Any recommendations on a barrel wrench?

AR barrel wrenches are not precision made. I just picked up one at the gun show for about $24. If you buy one on-line, the use reviews are helpful.

Elvis · Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

thats a tough break Suz. sorry to hear you have been given the run around AGAIN!!! I do hope you get a good result in the end, maybe the boy sent it off without the master checking it first, if so he will get a right bollocking when you send it back!!! who knows maybe even a stout switching!!!

Suzanne · Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

Thanks Lester it is a bummer, least I didn't have to do an overnighter like you!! I sent it back this morning and found that he had already sent me a return e-mail by the time I got back home. He said he e-mailed his head gunsmith and will prob. get a reply by Monday. I fired one right back telling him it's coming from FedEx next week and that I expect some compensation and a fast turn-around. I think he'll do good for me, hell it was Christmas when he was working on it and I bet his smithy wanted to get it out of his hair.

Hey SlimboJ, I do have some reservations on the piston system, and so have everything except the gas block to make it into a gas only system (just in case). I have the bolt and gas key on hand. Adams supplies a bolt and a gas block but I thought what the hey, get the stuff just in case it's a bummer. They actually don't endorse their system on a 7.62x39 and it's a 20" bbl also. I'm expecting it will need some tweeking, if it works at all. Tell me about the "issues" people are having with the piston system, maybe I can avoid some future troubles.

I want the freefloat so I can use a bi-pod and I figured on a 20" bbl I would have more flex than a 16" or at least the possibility. I've found some decent inexpensive ones but don't know how big it needs to be. I don't want to cover the gas block but I don't know about the height of the piston set-up, so I have to wait till I get it.

Ya see I thought I was rich for a while and I needed a play-thing...well I couldn't get play thing on the phone so I spent some money instead.

Elvis maybe I shoulda sent him a switch, sort of like a hint of things to come. With some blood on it ooOOOooo, he'd have to figure that one out himself. Well I think it'll work out, just have to wait and wait and see.

SouieSouieSuz

Gil Martin · Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

Sorry to hear about the run around with getting gunsmithing work done. I am blessed to have a superb gunsmith right down the road. He is a bit slow due to a high backlog of work. He does excellent work at fair prices and I do not mind waiting. All the best...
Gil

slimjim · Last edited by slimjim on Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:23 am; edited 1 time in total

Suzanne wrote:

Tell me about the "issues" people are having with the piston system, maybe I can avoid some future troubles.

Well, I've watched operator error adjust their gas block the wrong way and get several double feeds. Design-wise, the AR bolt was designed for extraction forces along the centerline (firing pin). Piston systems redistribute the extraction forces to the top of the bolt. This has caused bolt stress and fatigue issues and new designs to address it, e.g., anti-tilt bolts to reduce excessive wear in the buffer tubes, and mono-block/bolt designs for bolt and block. Others may have more details. I also have read account that the piston-ARs don't fair any better in weeklong tactical training sessions than the DGI ARs. My S&W M&P gets cleaned once a year and bearly needs it (it does get some oil periodically).

Ominivision1 · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:43 am Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

Good grief Suz, can't believe the bad luck your having with the smiths, hopefully you can find a decent one somewhere.

Suzanne · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

Actually SlimJ I'm going to make it DI for now, as the cost for the piston is going to have to wait a while and I don't like waiting. Still need a gas block and just a couple other things to get it ready to shoot. I bought a Magpul MOE handguard yesterday and so the free float will have to wait too. This is what happens, I get antsy and spend more money than necessary and pretty soon I'm SOL because of money and then my paychecks get smaller and I end up spending the summer broke waitin for the tax refund that never amounts to much so I start sellin stuff I don't really wanna sell, just so I can fund another project to go broke on. On the other hand this is what I do and I love it. I'll never be able to retire anyway, may as well spend while I can still play like a two-legger right? Just kidding....it starts to look that way tho.

I don't understand that part you said about extraction forces on the bolt. Also don't understand the bolt tilt, although I've also read about it. Seems to me the DI system and the piston system power the bolt carrier in the exact same place, it's just that one is the force of gas and the other is the impact of the piston, but they're in the same key area of the bolt carrier. It does exist, it's just a mystery to me that the forces are not the same.

One of the piston systems utilizes a rod that is integral to the carrier to eliminate tilt. It goes from the carrier out past the body of the upper. Most others simply bevel the trailing edge of the carrier to sort of give a more friction free entry into the extension. The early models had issues with their rods bending but that's been taken care of also. They started out by issuing a replacement gas key but now they incorporate the key area (where the piston rod strikes) into the bolt carrier as a one piece bolt carrier. Looks like it's all been worked out. Anyways I'm not a mag-dump person or a competitive shooter so I think it'll be cool. I love it when there's less dishes to wash, and I've seen the dirt from 7.62x39 el cheapo ammo, it's ugly stuff. Wouldn't want that in my dish water.

Suz

slimjim · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:26 am Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

Suzanne wrote:

Seems to me the DI system and the piston system power the bolt carrier in the exact same place, it's just that one is the force of gas and the other is the impact of the piston,

Suz, the gas tube enters the bolt at the same location as the operating rod pushs on the piston gun. However, the expansion chamber for the gas impengment is down inside the bolt centered around the firing pin. That is where the extraction forces are. The fact that the gas enters from above has no impact on the forces. Thus, the rod from the piston gun pushes well above center-line and the gas impengment does it exactly on centerline.

Suzanne wrote:

I've seen the dirt from 7.62x39 el cheapo ammo, it's ugly stuff.

Maybe I missed it, are you doing .223 or 7.62x39? I have had no issue with generic .223 ammo, e.g., American Eagle, Remington, PMC, etc. I've only had to clean my bolt chamber once in 3 years and it was debatable if it had to be done. I have no experience 7.62x39.

Elvis · Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

stay well clear of "china sport" 7.62x39mm ammo Suz its not good from what Ive seen. we had pieces of case inside the case mouth how the hell it got there I dont know but they turned out upon firing so the case mouth had an extension if you like.dont know how high the pressure went but it would have been high.
how did you get on in the end with this gunsmith Suz??

Joe Boleo · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

Suz,
What is the update? Did you ever get the issues resolved? Take care...
Joe

Suzanne · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

I might have written this in another thread. but yes I got the barrel back and it was drilled and tapped correctly, and to remind me not to buy from him again, he left the filings inside the barrel for me to clean out.

It is very accurate tho and I've got a happy feeling it'll be one of my best shooters to date. I love the 8mm, it makes a nice big hole.

Doesn't look very readable but the left photo is 150grn at 100yds. I shot 2 sighting-in rnds then 6 in a group.

The right photo I was shooting 180grn and 200grn at 100yds. The bottom 2 were aimed at the cross, then I shot some rnds using the mil dots to get me on target and to see what I could get. I have a Nikon scope with cross hairs and then little circles under the cross hairs to use as mil dots. To get the rnds up there I used the second mil dot. Very pleased, thank you very much, despite the wrangling and waiting it turned out pretty good.

Suz

Elvis · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

good to hear you got there in the end. looks like a shooter for sure.

fnuser · Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: New barrel, sending it back

I'm a huge 8mm fan I like H335 in the 150's and Varget or BL-C2 w\ the 180 Nos Ballistic tips actually though the mauser cartridge seems not too fussy about propellants as long as you get the length about right. That may be due to the balanced nature of the cartridge.