HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 526
BOT: 1
Total: 527
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Your Account
05: Forums
06: Home
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Your Account
14: Your Account
15: Home
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Home
19: Statistics
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Statistics
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Photo Albums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Home
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Home
43: Forums
44: Your Account
45: Forums
46: Your Account
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Photo Albums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Photo Albums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Your Account
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Photo Albums
61: Forums
62: Home
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Photo Albums
67: Your Account
68: Your Account
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Photo Albums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Your Account
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Your Account
83: Your Account
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Your Account
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Your Account
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Home
97: Photo Albums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Home
102: Photo Albums
103: Your Account
104: Forums
105: News
106: Your Account
107: Your Account
108: Forums
109: Home
110: Forums
111: Home
112: Forums
113: Home
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Your Account
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Your Account
126: Forums
127: Home
128: Forums
129: Your Account
130: Home
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Your Account
134: Home
135: Photo Albums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Your Account
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Home
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Photo Albums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Home
149: Forums
150: Photo Albums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Your Account
157: Forums
158: Home
159: Home
160: Your Account
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Photo Albums
165: Forums
166: Your Account
167: Forums
168: Your Account
169: Forums
170: Home
171: Your Account
172: Your Account
173: Photo Albums
174: Forums
175: Your Account
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Your Account
179: Forums
180: Your Account
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Forums
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Your Account
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Home
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Photo Albums
203: Forums
204: Your Account
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Forums
210: Photo Albums
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Forums
214: Home
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Forums
218: Forums
219: Your Account
220: Forums
221: Your Account
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Home
225: Your Account
226: Home
227: Home
228: Your Account
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Photo Albums
233: Forums
234: Home
235: Forums
236: Photo Albums
237: Forums
238: Your Account
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Your Account
246: Forums
247: Your Account
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Forums
251: Photo Albums
252: Home
253: Home
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Photo Albums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Photo Albums
260: Forums
261: Your Account
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Home
265: Your Account
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Your Account
270: Forums
271: Your Account
272: Forums
273: Home
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Forums
278: Forums
279: Forums
280: Your Account
281: Home
282: Forums
283: Forums
284: Home
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Your Account
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Your Account
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Forums
304: Your Account
305: Your Account
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Your Account
310: Forums
311: Your Account
312: Forums
313: Your Account
314: Forums
315: Forums
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Your Account
319: Your Account
320: Your Account
321: Photo Albums
322: Forums
323: Forums
324: Forums
325: Forums
326: Forums
327: Forums
328: Home
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Forums
332: Forums
333: Forums
334: Forums
335: Forums
336: Forums
337: News
338: Forums
339: Forums
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Your Account
344: Photo Albums
345: Forums
346: Photo Albums
347: Home
348: Forums
349: Forums
350: Forums
351: Forums
352: Forums
353: Forums
354: Forums
355: Forums
356: Your Account
357: Forums
358: Your Account
359: Forums
360: Photo Albums
361: Forums
362: Forums
363: Forums
364: Forums
365: Your Account
366: Forums
367: Forums
368: Forums
369: Forums
370: Your Account
371: Forums
372: Your Account
373: Photo Albums
374: Forums
375: Forums
376: Forums
377: Forums
378: Forums
379: Forums
380: Forums
381: Forums
382: Forums
383: Forums
384: Photo Albums
385: Forums
386: Your Account
387: Forums
388: Forums
389: Forums
390: Photo Albums
391: Forums
392: Forums
393: Forums
394: Forums
395: Photo Albums
396: Forums
397: Forums
398: Forums
399: Forums
400: Forums
401: Forums
402: Forums
403: Forums
404: Forums
405: Photo Albums
406: Forums
407: Forums
408: Photo Albums
409: Forums
410: Forums
411: Forums
412: Home
413: Forums
414: Forums
415: Forums
416: Forums
417: Forums
418: Your Account
419: Forums
420: Forums
421: Forums
422: Forums
423: Forums
424: Forums
425: Home
426: Home
427: News
428: Forums
429: Photo Albums
430: Your Account
431: Forums
432: Home
433: Forums
434: Photo Albums
435: Forums
436: Your Account
437: Your Account
438: Photo Albums
439: Your Account
440: Forums
441: Home
442: Your Account
443: Forums
444: Forums
445: Forums
446: Forums
447: Photo Albums
448: Forums
449: Your Account
450: Forums
451: Forums
452: Home
453: Forums
454: Forums
455: Forums
456: Forums
457: Forums
458: Your Account
459: Forums
460: Your Account
461: Home
462: Forums
463: Forums
464: Forums
465: Forums
466: Forums
467: Your Account
468: Forums
469: Forums
470: Forums
471: Photo Albums
472: Your Account
473: News
474: Your Account
475: Forums
476: Home
477: Forums
478: Forums
479: Forums
480: Forums
481: Forums
482: Forums
483: Forums
484: Your Account
485: Forums
486: Your Account
487: Forums
488: Forums
489: Forums
490: Forums
491: Your Account
492: Your Account
493: Forums
494: Your Account
495: Your Account
496: Your Account
497: Forums
498: Forums
499: Forums
500: Your Account
501: Forums
502: Forums
503: Forums
504: Forums
505: Forums
506: Forums
507: Forums
508: Forums
509: Home
510: Forums
511: Forums
512: Forums
513: Forums
514: Forums
515: Photo Albums
516: Photo Albums
517: Forums
518: Forums
519: Forums
520: Forums
521: Forums
522: Forums
523: Forums
524: Forums
525: Forums
526: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Finally done it
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Donut Slayer
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2007
Posts: 594
Location: Pensacola, Florida

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:04 am    Post subject: Finally done it Reply with quote

went and ordered a hornady auto charge powder dispenser. Been having trouble out of my old RCBS beam scale, and my Lee beam scale bugs the crap outta me. So wish me luck, it should be delivered by the big brown truck today. Very Happy
www.hornady.com/store/...dispenser/

_________________
Browning X-Bolt in 30'06. The work for a pet load starts again. Wink The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

Make sure you give us a report on it, including photos...

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

Been considering one myself.......... I'll be interest in your report back !!!
(Looks a lot like the RCBS unit ???)

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

Yes a report would be great, a shooting buddy bought an RCBS unit a few years ago and watching him use it was tedious to say the least. Maybe because it was one of the first models but when you programed it for your load, the last 1 1/2 to 2 grains would trickle in, SLOWLY. In fact, for a mid range /06 load, it would take almost 90 seconds to measure and dump load. He called RCBS and they shipped him a new one and it did the same thing, but he's in no hurry just as long as its accurate.


Hopefully newer tech speeds it up.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 5001
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

I've got a PACT and am pleased with it. One solution to a long dispense time is to throw most of your charge with a manual powder dispenser then let the automatic one trickle in the remaining amount. I've done it by setting my manual dispenser to throw a charge 2-3 grains low before sticking the pan on the PACT.

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1065
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

How accurate is it and how accurate do you need it to be?
Seriously – we all want our loads to be the exact same weight but even though a scale says the same value on the digital print out or on the center line of the pan balance arm, is it?
A grain is not very much and a 1/10 of a grain is , well less than that... One grain is .0648 grams or 64.8 mg. 1/10 of a grain is 6.48 mg or .0065g.
Most digital scales say they are accurate to 1% (.01) but may have a read out that has a lot more decimal places than it is accurate to.
And furthermore, ( Heresy and Blasphemy) does it matter?
In my testing I have found in a .223 with a 77 grain SMK that with Varget /RE-15 and 8208XBR you get about 10 fps increases with a 0.1 grain charge increase. But with ES and SD there is overlap. Put that on
Paper and run it through point blank and you will find that even at 0.5 grain or 50 FPS difference the POI at 300 yards is a whopping 0.2MOA. I sure cannot hold that tight. I used to be very meticulous about weighing each charge for competition but since I figured this out I set the powder thrower and spot check about every 10 throws. My scores have improved because I shoot more and spend less time at the bench.
That said, any load I shoot over 300 yards gets the royal treatment of brass prep uniforming and weighing for maximum consistency that is designed to give me the lowest ES possible so that any points I lose at 600 yards are from my missing a wind call and not from a change in velocity between shells.
DO NOT READ THE REST OF THIS POST UNLESS YOU ARE A GEEK


In Pharma, to use a balance for assay it has to be repeatable and accurate to .001 or 0.1%. We calculate the repeatability by taking 3xSD/weight used. (Nasa uses 2xSD/weight)

I typically will use a five place balance and get an SD of .000006 or better using a 20mg weight. 3x 0.000006/.020 = .00095. If I use any lower weights the SD will go up and I will fail this test. .020g or 20 mg is the minimum weight I can measure within the precision of my $$$$$ scale...( I just checked six of them and they all have a similar floor of about 20 mg.) We have six place microbalances which will go down to 2mg accurately weighed. Even though they will display 0.01900g or 0.00190g they certainty of a measurement less than the minimum weight is outside the allowable range to be used in a pharma test.

If you are using a scale that is only reading to 2 decimal places, you cannot get repeatability to that level. USP uncertainty calculations would say that his scale is repeatable only with weights over 20 grams to have 0.1% repeatability! (Since it is three orders of magnitude less precision than my balance) that is 308 grains to pharma repeatability requirement.

Here is a test for you to try - Pick check weight that is about 5% of your scales capacity ( ie 10 grams if your scale is a 200 gram scale) Get it good and warmed up, eliminate all vibration, thermal variation, static charges and any drafts blowing through the area - Zero/calibrate the balance if it has that feature, then take 10 replicate measurements of the check weight and see if you get the same reading. If you get the same reading use a smaller weight and repeat.

If you do not get the same reading all 10 times - calculate the SD of the 10 measurements to one more place than your scale reads.

For example If you take 10 readings and 9 of them are 10.00g and one 10.01 your SD is .003g.

Using the calculation above you can determine a minimum weight that will meet your precision requirement. If you need 0.1% (.001) repeatablility at the 2SD Nasa requirements( this is Rocket science not 3SD brain surgery):

2x SD /.001= Minimum weight

2x.003/.001 = 6g (92 grains!) minimum weight that can be accurately weighed with 0.1% accuracy.

If 1% is good enough precision for you that will drop to 9.2 grains for a minimum repeatable measurement.

This should not stop you from wanting to use electronic balances, just make you aware of the limitations and allow you to have reasonable expectations of the results.

One grain is .0648 grams or 64.8 mg. 1/10 of a grain is 6.48 mg or .0065g.
If your balance is not reading grams out to at least 3 decimal places (MILLIGRAMS) you will have a lot of variation in what it shows as a 0.1 grain change. With one decimal places 23.9, 24.0 and 24.1(grains) all read 1.6 grams. Two decimals would read 1.55, 1.56 and 1.56 grams. Finally with three decimals you would see 1.549, 1.555 and 1.562 grams. (My four place balance would show 1.5487,1.5552 and 1.5616g)
If you do the conversion to grains and round to the 0.1 place… a balance could read between 23.1 and 24.7 grains for the same measurement if your balance reads to the 0.1gram
grams grains
1.5552 24.0
1.555 24.0
1.56 24.1
1.6 24.7
1.5 23.1

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
44marty
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 20, 2009
Posts: 775
Location: Cheshire, MA; USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

Crap, Dawgdad, I enjoyed reading that. I didn't know I was such a geek.

_________________
_____________________________________

The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling

I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:44 am    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

CRAP....my head hurts. Very Happy Sad Mad

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:50 am    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

I got a sore head too. Im quite happy with my balance beam that gives me 1/10th of a grain measurements. I will throw a charge and then check it in the pan , then load it.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

You make a Good point Dawgdad, but do we really need a scale/dispenser that accurate for our hunting loads?

Its getting to the point where weighing powder charges to a hundredth of a grain is like trimming firewood with a finger nail file. Very Happy

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

OV1 wrote:
...trimming firewood with a finger nail file. Very Happy

You say that like its a bad thing mate...don't you do that anyway??? Laughing

You make a good point though...1/10th of a grain is about as close as the average Joe with the commonly available scales can get anyway. With the different types of powders...log, ball, flake...and the "small" inconsistencies of production, I think it would be difficult to get a consistently spot-on accurate measurement anyway.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

About 18 years ago I sent an e-mail to RCBS asking if they would ever produce a scale that could weigh down to .01 of a grain.

About two days later I got my answer. "Ha ha ha ha...Right" Signed "Director of manufacturing"...

Well Donut Slayer? Did it come in?

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Donut Slayer
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2007
Posts: 594
Location: Pensacola, Florida

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
About 18 years ago I sent an e-mail to RCBS asking if they would ever produce a scale that could weigh down to .01 of a grain.

About two days later I got my answer. "Ha ha ha ha...Right" Signed "Director of manufacturing"...

Well Donut Slayer? Did it come in?
yes it did. Very Happy Very Happy So far, it seems very accurate. Have to let it warm up for about 5 minutes then calibrate it, but no biggie on either. Tried it with H4831SC, threw about 100 charges at 62.0 grains, 98 were all on and 2 were .1 grain high. Thats on the fast setting. I didnt time it but it threw a load about 45 seconds. Now when it came to flake pistol powder, Bluedot @10.0 grians, damn it took forever. Like about 2 minutes per charge. It would throw to 9.8 or 9.9 and seem to take a full minute to dispense .2 or .1 grains. I havent had a chance to play with it alot, but I'm sure liking it right now. Set the target weight and it will beep when it's done. NICE. Very Happy

_________________
Browning X-Bolt in 30'06. The work for a pet load starts again. Wink The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Donut Slayer
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2007
Posts: 594
Location: Pensacola, Florida

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

Oh, and the reason I decided to get it was, every once in a while my RCBS scale would act crazy. I mean, the beam would stay just under the balance point while I trickled powder then all of a sudden it would tipp straight up. WTH?????? I would take it apart (assuming dust) and clean it, wipe it down with a anti static dryer sheet but it would still malfunction. The next day it would be fine. There would be no air currents, no radio interference or any thing that I could figure out. My Lee scale wouldnt be affected, but I really dont care for that scale.

_________________
Browning X-Bolt in 30'06. The work for a pet load starts again. Wink The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11390
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally done it Reply with quote

Make sure the two knife edges are clean and burr free.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.