HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: JohnMill
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 12423

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 138
BOT: 4
Total: 142
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Photo Albums
10: Photo Albums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Home
17: Photo Albums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Photo Albums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Photo Albums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Photo Albums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Home
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Photo Albums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Photo Albums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Photo Albums
83: Home
84: News
85: Forums
86: Your Account
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Photo Albums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Photo Albums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Home
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Photo Albums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Statistics
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Home
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Your Account
127: Forums
128: Photo Albums
129: News
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Photo Albums
137: Forums
138: Your Account
  BOT:
01: Home
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 300
 Pictures: 2357
  · Views: 275083
  · Votes: 1295
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

Minute of Angle - All you need to know.
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pizzaguy
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 03, 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

I see a lot of people that talk about Minute of Angle (MOA) and then use the wrong terminology or are not real sure what it means. So, with your indulgence, I’d like to talk a little about it. First my qualifications, why should you listen to someone that doesn’t know what they are talking about? I’m a NRA and Law Enforcement firearms instructor (including long range,) as well as a former National Guard Governor’s twenty shooter. I regularly shoot at 1000 yards to keep on top of my game. Now on to the meat of it. I will be taking writings from other sources and mixing them together with my own experience, so please if I quote something you already read don’t point it out, I already know that.

Minute of Angle….
To understand what MOA means we must look at a circle. There are 360 degrees in a circle. There are 60 minutes of arc in one degree. So with 360 degrees X 60 minutes of arc = 21,600 minutes of arc in a complete circle. The circumference of a circle = 2πR. R = the radius of the circle and π = 3.1416. Now that everyone is good and confused I’ll tell you what that means…..
21,600 MOA = 2 X R (3.1416). What that means 1 = .0002908R. What this means is for any radius (or range) one minute = .0002908R. So what? I’m getting to the so what, bear with me that was the why, I’m getting to the how. So if R = 100yrds which is 3,600 inches, this means that one minute at 100 yrds is .0002908 X (R) 3,600 = 1.047. Now 1.047 is the true MOA “drop” everyone calls 1” MOA. This means at 100yrds 1MOA = 1.047, at 500yrds 1MOA is 5.235” and at 1000yrds 1 MOA is 10.47”.

For normal shooting 1 MOA = 1” but if you are doing the math for longer shots I would suggest using 1.047 as it will make a difference on the cold barrel shot.

Alright here is a quick test to see if you are following along so far. Let’s say your rifle is zeroed at 100yrds. Now you want to shoot the 450yrd plate. Our range card says that the elevation (Of this gun) is 9.25MOA@450yrds. Now we know at 450yrds 1MOA = 4.5” so to do the math (9.25 X 4.5) = 41.6” right? Right (trust me) So our scope has ¼ minute adjustments you would have to dope (or dial) 37 “clicks” to have point of aim point of impact at 450yrds. Let’s talk about scopes for a second.

Scopes come in all sorts of varieties, and I’m not going to go into what you should or should not use. It really is personal preference. I use Army mil dots. There are Bullet Drop Compensators (BDC), USMC mil dots, and a number of other “ideas”. I was trained to use Army mil dots so that’s what I use. The only recommendation I can make is pick ONE and stay with it. I don’t care what it is as long as it works for you. Clicks, I see SO MANY people at the range that have NO IDEA what they are and what they mean. It will be on your scope if it’s a ¼ or 1/8 MOA per click. Now let’s go back up to our chart. If 1MOA is 1” @ 100yrds, 1 click (1/4 Scope) = 1/4” @ 100yrds. This means at 200yrds it’s ½”, at 300yrds it is ¾” at 400yrds it is 1” and so on.

Try to think in minutes instead of inches. At a 100yrd target your bullet impact is 3” low, this is equal to 3MOA. So at 800yrds your bullet impact is 24” low this is ALSO 3MOA. The same 12 clicks are required to bring bullet impact to center mass in either situation. If you think in minutes 1” = 1MOA @ 100yrds the same as 8” = 1MOA @ 800yrds.


Last edited by Pizzaguy on Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:13 am; edited 6 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Pizzaguy
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 03, 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

I’ll get into ranging will mil dots, how to judge wind, range cards and the rest of it in the near future. After I see the feedback I get from this post.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6995
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

Pizzaguy, I'll be interested in following your discussion. My only feedback so far is it will be easier to read if you group you information into one post instead of 7.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 6894
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

Pizzaguy follow you so far. all good info.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 12985
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

I like it Pizza...I have already learned something, so keep on keepin' on mate.

I agree with Slim...a new paragraph for a new "point" will make life easier for you, and easier to read mate.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2985
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

Good discussion.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Pizzaguy
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 03, 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
Pizzaguy, I'll be interested in following your discussion. My only feedback so far is it will be easier to read if you group you information into one post instead of 7.

I was worried about exceeding a word count limit per post. I'll use the spots I just made to add more information, please leave them there, thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6995
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

Thanks for condensing. I would just delete the post that are now empty. Otherwise, people won't know when you make new posts.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Pizzaguy
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 03, 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

ok, delete them please
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

Pizzaman - good primer for a beginner to understand what shooting more than 100 yards at a time takes.

I shoot SR Highpower and take for granted that every body will grab a knob and crank in windage and elevation to make the center shot on the first pull. I do the same with my hunting scopes. I have the 4"point blank zero set for shots under 300 and have a stock chart with come ups and windage guestimate for longer ranges. This one is for my SR but you get the idea of what goes on the stock chart.



I used mil dots and a Mildot master for a while but found a laser range finder and the stock chart to be a lot faster. Very Happy

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Pizzaguy
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 03, 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

Mildot master is great if you know how to use it. I have a range card on all my guns, however I have found an awsome app for the iPhone/iPod Touch. It's called iSnipe and if you shoot lond range it's a MUST. I think I paid $25 for it and I have used it to make cold bbl shots out to 1200yrds on guns that I have never shot that far before.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
shrpshtrjoe
Super Red Neck Member
Super Red Neck Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 2955
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

Pizzaguy wrote:
ok, delete them please

There deleted Very Happy

_________________
"MOLON LABE"

P E T A
People Eating Tasty Animals
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

Does I-snipe use GPS to determine altitude and local weather conditions(air pressure specifically). You can get by on a MR target out to 600 without being real close on altitude and air pressure but a 1200 yard CBS shot you better have that factored in too. Are you shooting LR paper B-I'S a Dog target or a gong at 1200?

Probably the most important factor is your actual BC of the load you are shooting. I generally will shoot at 100-200-300-500 with one scope setting and play with the ballistics program BC values until they match my trajectory. Very few bullets match published values. Again really not a huge factor out to 600 but after that...

Once you have the correct BC (not the published one) and the other factors figured out I am always pleased how close the ballistics programs come to giving proper dope. Physics is Phun!


Any way getting ahead of the rest of the class---carry on professor.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Pizzaguy
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 03, 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

Dawgdad wrote:
Does I-snipe use GPS to determine altitude and local weather conditions(air pressure specifically).

It sure does and with the 3GS or 4 (With built in compas) point it at the target and it will give you correct dope for the wind. It also will figure bullet drop based on the angle of your bbl. It's an AWSOME tool. Here is their web site www.isnipe.ca/
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3263
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Minute of Angle - All you need to know. Reply with quote

Even I can understand your explanation THANK YOU >>>>MORE PLEASE!!!


Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.