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Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Blaine
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Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: 260
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

The subject of this thread always gets me going. I live in an area where the deer density is less than 5 deer per square mile, so sightings are rare indeed, not to mention it is "bucks only" without a very scarce "any deer permit". Even though sightings are few and far between, I still maintain the self imposed rules I established when I first started deer hunting over 30 years ago.

1) I NEVER shoot at a running animal. I've practiced at moving targets (tires rolling down a slope) for fun and actually have gotten pretty good at it, but I still don't choose to stray from my self imposed rules.

2) I NEVER take a shot longer than 300 yards because the winds here are too unpredictable. I don't need to take an animal that bad to risk a unrecoverable wound.

I don't get my deer every year. I've only taken 8 in the last 15 years or so, but I have never used more than one shot and they have never gone more than 100 yards (usually a lot less). I don't sight this record to brag, but to illustrate that self discipline produces clean kills. I have lost count of the shots I've passed up because it "just wasn't right". I don't criticize those that hunt differently than I, but I hate to see these kinds of posts that encourage new and inexperienced hunters to try to repeat these "feats". Most deer hunters should not be taking shots over 200 yards and definitely should not be spraying bullets at a running animal. Reading about the possibilities emboldens the inexperienced to try beyond their ability.

There, I've done my part to stir up the hornets nest. I don't mean to offend anyone, just stating my opinion.

Blaine

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grimel
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Blaine wrote:
Most deer hunters should not be taking shots over 20 yards and definitely should not be spraying bullets at a running animal.

Blaine, I fixed your post. My ex-father-in-law shouldn't take a shot at over 10 ft, yet will empty a pump 12ga at a deer by the time the deer covers 30yds starting at 10yds and finishing up at 40yds. The safest thing to be when he starts shooting is the deer. Watched someone burn through about 3 boxes at 50yds before declaring his scoped rifle zeroed because the group (6+in) was roughly centered around the bullseye.

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longwalker
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

I guess the point is most if not all of us don't have what it takes to make those kinds of shots. Today we can take shots at deer that our grandfathers and great-grandfathers would say we were nuts to even think about.

If someone can make that kind of shot and takes it the "hunt" is over. Maybe that is how they propose to get that "wall hanger" on a weekend hunt. For me I would just as soon take my time. If the game is out of range then it's just out of range. Get closer.

I suspect, that the whole point of the video is to sell DVDs and maybe some special rifles and scopes. In which case they most likely will, sell some. I wish them well, but they will be waiting a long time for any of my hard earned dollars.

longwalker
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deermanager
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

wow what a clip! wish my clients oculd shoot like that although they would have to prove it to me on psper first. These modern flat shooting cartridges such as the .300win MAG or the .30-378Weatherby and even the range of Lazzeroni cartridges all offer outstanding long range potential in the right hands with abit of practice. Knowing the quarry's anatomy is also key, you have to be patient and wait untill the annimal is in a position where you can maximixe your chances of a fatal shot and dont forget to squeeze that trigger gently...........real gently!
I have a client who shoots a .300win mag and i have seen him drop red and fallow deer on the spot out to 600yds every time. If that bullet hits rib or shoulder on that trophy long range buck you can start thinkng about where to hang the head, he uses 167gr Sirrooco Swift bullets.
I myself have taken muntjac deer out to 300yds and a few fallow bucks and red stags past the 400yd mark with my .243 ackerley, no second shots were ever needed although the annimals usually went 20-30yds, apart from the muntjac.
Only last nite me and my brother were out after roe bucks and we both got one each, his a young second head buck taken at 287yds off the bonnet of the truck as it ran away from a larger buck that was seeing him off his territory. I took my shot at 80yds dropping him with one shot in the shoulder, then passed the rifle to my brother to make the shot on the younger buck that was now hastily retreating accross the field and made the fatal error of stopping to look back!
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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Would love to see the mpeg, but unfortunately my computer is too slow and, like me, old to worry about it.

Longest distance I have ever shot targets over is 400-500 metres when I was in the Army. Always made 1st class shot but there is no way I would attempt a shot beyond 200 metres in the field on a live animal. It just ain't fair to the critters!! I have passed up more shots than I care to remember for the sake of being humane. Having said that, I have used more than one shot on a number of occasions, sometimes just to make sure.
Strangest animal I ever took was my first ever deer, a fallow buck. At a distance of 60 metres, a nice clean shot just behind the head from the side....he went down instantly and didn't move. We walked over to him and carried him back to the track where we bled him by "taking out" a 6" section of his neck. Damned if he didn't jump up after about 10 sec and do a runner. Don't know how because the majority of his blood wasn't in him anymore! A second shot to the back of the head at about 10 metres dropped him for good. My mate reckons he was the toughest fallow he has ever encountered.

Vince

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LittleMagnum
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

When is a long shot long ? for me 250 yards is called good poke, 300 yards is a long shot. I would say 400 yards is beyond far and I say my limit with 50/50 odd's of good hit is 500 yards in no wind. This is with good
bolt action deer rifle. So when is too long, too long. No real hunter wants cripple a big game animal, but, if you don't push your limit, you might never know what your limit is.....Yes, shooting at the range, will humble most shooters, when they try shooting groups at 300 plus yards with a deer rifle. Targets don't lie, targets don't move and paper targets don't give buck fever. I have been lucky, I haven't had to shoot pass 350 yards yet on a big game animal. I have been two for two on deer over 300yards. Both were good bucks. So when do I say nope too far ? That depends if the wind blowing hard and I don't have a good rest, the animal walking etc. Or when do you say I got try that 50/50 shot ? is it on that buck of a lifetime ? or that Dall sheep, standing there 500 yards away on last day of a 12k hunt. To each is own, but, we all should know are limits and pass on the shot's we know are plain wrong.
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calsibley
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Helll Dallan,

"Would you take this shot?" was the name of the test I took many years ago to get my Ontario hunting license. A scene would pop up on the screen, and you had a second or two at the most to decide whether to take the shot. One was the picture of the family dog taken from about 300yds. Another was a majestic deer standing just across road from you.
It was really trickey, but a good test. Still another was a black bear standing near the gas tank of a pickup truck. Sometimes that picture would flip away before your mind could absorb it fully. I'd love to see this type of testing become more common. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

calsibley wrote:
Helll Dallan,

"Would you take this shot?" was the name of the test I took many years ago to get my Ontario hunting license. A scene would pop up on the screen, and you had a second or two at the most to decide whether to take the shot. One was the picture of the family dog taken from about 300yds. Another was a majestic deer standing just across road from you.
It was really trickey, but a good test. Still another was a black bear standing near the gas tank of a pickup truck. Sometimes that picture would flip away before your mind could absorb it fully. I'd love to see this type of testing become more common. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I personally wish they would have mandatory profficientcy testing in the USA... but i know I'm in the minority. Those tests sound pretty interesting.

"how far is too far" is like a "what is the best deer rifle" discussion... its full of very opinionated people at times. I've seen people who shouldnt be shooting at a deer 100 yards away and I've personally seen deer dropped at 800 with a single shot. All I know is what my limits are.


-DallanC
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:28 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

once again a great older thread. here in NZ we have a group of dedicated hunters who regulary take animals at VERY long range the NZ hunter magazine carries articles by these guys and I have watched with interest. Its not my cup of tea but from what I have seen/read with the right gear animals are being taken way out to 12-1400mtrs they have range finders and KNOW where thier bullets go at that range through practise. I dont agree with it as a movement by the animal would resilt in a miss or wounding but on the other hand at that range the animal will not know you are there and should be calm. they mostly use 7mm calibre and target projectiles. for the record my furterest deer were 300 ish yrds away most would average 75yrds.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Good deal Elvis digging up these old threads, for me, if I can't get to within 300 yards of a game animal with a rifle, I'll wait for another day.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

You have to know your weapon very well to take these shots at live game. Point blank will get you on the paper but, IMHO, it takes a lok of skill to read the wind, altitude, angle and airpressure to put the correct dope on a shot over 300 yards.

If your scope is not quite level, you have a cant in your hold, you mis read the distance to target, the wind is calm where you are but blowing 15 mph dead cross wind half way to the target... you really need to find all of this stuff out by shooting at paper (or steel) first.

I do shoot coyotes a lot further out than many guys will ( the one in the avatar was 462 yards) but I also shoot several hunderd rounds a year at 600 yard paper targets.

I know my weapon and load from actually shooting at the distance.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

My old soapbox about starting to extend the Lethal range of a hunter...

I set gallon jugs of water at various distances from 50 -300 yards. Assuming a typical hunting position usually sitting or with sticks. I have the shooter start picking them off from near to far. They get one shot at each jug. The longest distance they hit on one shot is the maximum lethal range. When they practice and gain marksmanship skills they can increase their range but this is usually quite an eye opener. Many guys who were "ready" to kill out to 400+ were done by 225 yards. Particularly those shooting real light bullets that are pushed more by the wind.


Carry on...

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

I love this subject ........ you either agree or disagree ....... no middle ground at all !!! Shocked

It's all about knowing what you can and can't do before going afield ..... some guys just never figure out how to get the job done therefor no one else should !!!

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

Kieth once said: get as close as ya can, then get 10y closer.

Still stands today. So do ethics.

I don't hunt big game up but I can speak for the uplanders when I say one should never fire into a covey rise- single one out and then come back to the group- esp if you don't have a dog. Cripple's or losses don't do anyone any good, including the brood count. I saw one dood in a group I was with fire into a covey once. I guarran-damn-tee ya he will never do that again after I jumped down his throat. I also kinda got ousted from the group as he was tight with them- aint seen them since and good riddance cuz I won't get a ticket from the warden. Only an idiot would fire into a covey rise or take a shot at big game he's not 5000% confident he can put the pill right on the money.

Paper and gongs don't bleed or feel pain.
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MacD
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Looooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg shooting Reply with quote

I gave up hunting and shooting 13 years ago and have just taken both up again. Life was just too busy and I was just getting divorced from my first wife. (I am on #3 now.) To get a big game license back then you had to pass a shooting test. Put two rounds into an 18 inch target at 50 yards. They gave you three tries. Many needed those three tries to pass. About 5% failed. They have since dropped the test.

I have a mirror in my office that my second wife gave to me. On the back it has a poem that gives the message that the man you need to satisfy is looking back at you from the mirror. If it feels wrong and you still do it then you have done wrong in his eyes.

Shooting at living things demands you conduct yourself ethically and with consideration for the animal you are about to kill. If you doubt you can make a clean kill and still take the shot then you need to take a hard look in the mirror. If you are an expert shot, have the right equipment and the situation is perfect then commit to the shot with all the care and attention that you can muster. If you wound it, track it down. If you wound or miss then question your ability next time the same shot present's itself.

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