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spotting the dreaded flinch
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:05 pm    Post subject: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

ever wondered if those missed shots were from flinching? or do you have a buddy who cant hit the side of the proverbial barn who you suspect flinces but who venomously denies it?
the most effective way I have used to find out is to get someone else to load the firearm for the shooter handing it over with a little of the case showing to show its loaded. the shooter finishes closing the bolt and fires.
the trick is to fire a few rounds 4-5 then slip in a empty case wtf .
the firing pin drops the muzzle slews waaay off target and the shooter goes red in the face Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed and is made aware of the issue. Cool
dont let on what you are going to do or it wont work.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:52 am    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

That is a great idea Elvis. A dummy round in amongst the live ones works a treat. I used to do the same when shooting pistol. If I suspected a mate flinching I would load a dummy round into one chamber and get him to shoot a group for me. I would even get them to do the same for me on occasion (without warning of course).

To make a dummy round is easy...I use a case that is no longer viable, decap it and fill the primer pocket with silicone, fill the case with SpakFilla (a internal wall plaster putty) or something similar, seat and glue a bullet into the case, then paint the end of the case with bright red paint or nail polish. You need to be careful not to make the case too obvious that it is a dummy though...that would defeat the purpose by removing the surprise factor.

Just a word of warning though...ensure that you separate any dummy rounds from your live rounds once the "flinch exercise" is done. Do a count before and after of your dummy rounds (you really only need two or three) and put them away where they cannot get mixed up with the live ammo. It's not the dummy rounds in with the live that is a problem...it's a live round finding it's way in with the dummies.

Cheers, Vince

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

Snap caps in the mag/cyl! Auto's- Do this for FTF/OOB/mal drills. Teaches the shooter to instinctively rack the dud out w/o coming off target. Never slap the slide if it fails to go into battery, get that round out of there and if you rack it and don't see the round fly out- stop, drop the mag and clear it and go to back up mag.

I don't flinch but I do "anticipate" recoil sometimes when firing fast strings- easy to see when the mag/cyl runs dry and the muzzle dips. It's my indication to do a "slow-down" set.

Good topic! Expanding on what Vince said I know some that paint dummy's white, pink etc so as not to mix them up and drill the primer pocket so no primer can ever go back in. Make then very obivous. If you are doing malf drills one usually has the mag handed to them from and instructor so...and I recomend snap caps at home for DF, stored in another room than live ammo so there's no chance of a mix up.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

Some years back I managed to give myself a pretty good flinch while testing some hot 300 grain .45 Colt loads (intended for hunting) in a Ruger Vaquero. I shot in a long range pistol match a few days later and boy! was I embarrassed! To work my way out of it I spent a while shooting a .22 Single Six. After I quit flinching I started on something a little bigger but had to go back to the .22 a couple more times before I got completely over it. Now I make sure to double up on the hearing protection (wear plugs and muffs) and have a pair of padded shooting gloves if I need them.

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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

Good idea. I use "snap caps" and they showed me I was flinching a lot some years ago...had a muzzle break installed and the flinch went away and has never returned.
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

Flinch? Wats dat?
Speaking ofcourse from the point of view of subsonics shooter Smile

Actually I uses empty shells to check my flinch almost every time before I went out hunting.

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Hauken
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

I use that method as a instructor on the range with my soldiers in the home guard. Its a great method. Just remember one thing. Never work with more than one thing at the time. That be trigger pull, grips, position. Get things right then move to the next.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

took my buddy out to fire a few rounds the other day. He has a nice 6.5x55 but couldnt hit a barley sugar box at 40yrds with it. I suspected he was a bit afraid of it and was flinching. we took out his rossi .44 magnum my sons .410 and my .270 .first thing I did was gave my buddy the .410 to fire with some 2 1/2" loads real lightweight recoil. no problems but funny look as in WTF? Next he fired his .44 and couldnt get a hit on a big target. I tried and found its patterning 12" high at 75yrds.... next I threw a hunk of wood arm sized out in the middle of a long puddle 100yrdish. got my buddy to fire at that. shots were right on line but high. did the empty case thing .no flinch. my son got to fire the mighty .44 magnum he loved it and was pretty darn close to the bit of wood. finished off by getting buddy to fire .410 again to hit something and finish on good note. have since taken out ramp on rear site of .44magnum.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

Is closing your eyes flinching? I do on the 308 but not the 223. I was going to try the double hearing protection with plugs and muffs. I try to make each shot a surprise so I do not anticipate but to no avail. Funny, I hunted birds for years with a 12 gauge and got to be a fair wing shot with both eyes open and don't recall blinking when I shot. I have some MP3 playing ear muffs that I use when using power saws etc. I'll try some loud metal rock and see if that helps :-)

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

I think the idea is to muffle the muzzle blast, not drown it out... Wink

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

MacD closing your eyes is a form of flinching but its the pulling off target thats a problem. suggestion for you get some 130grn projectiles and make up some lighter loads even some 123grn sks projectiles the 130grn hp speers are good for deer and smaller.

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

There's only one cure for flinching/blinking and it's, wait for it cuz it's super scientific.....it's shooting the offending piece more!

It's noise (and pressure with the really big stuff, but mostly noise) that causes the flinch. Like when I light off Kabong and it leaps off the bench 3-4" or so launching that 200gr pill from a braked muzzle- it's LOUD. I don't finch, but, my neighbor does, sometimes full on ducks- and sometimes moves down if he gets there after me! Once you are used to the noise, meh, no big.

BANG! Shocked

That'll make anyone blink or flinch.

Ya have to shoot it out of yourself. No way around that.

Ever walk onto an indoor range after a long spell off and notice while you are setting up if someone is banging away next to you you blink or flinch some, then, settle down once you are used to it?

It's called "time in the saddle", or T.I.T.S. No substitute for it. Shoot more and flinch less!

It works and it's the only cure.
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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

The empty round trick does work great, my dad use to do that to us as kids. Then later, I kind of modified it, but not for the anti flinch. Mine was purely for fun. well, kind of mean too.
as a teenage some of my friends were not around firearms that much and liked coming to our house to shoot. We would sit around and shoot playing cards stapled to an old saw horse in the field. Betting nickles for who could call and shoot a specific diamond, or heart, or spade on a card from around 50 feet. It was fun. One of the 22s we used was my old Savage 24d over under. And when it was someone new, I would load them 22s for around 10 rounds, then slip a 20 guage in and flip the firing pin selector on the hammer. Of course I wouldnt tell them. Another great one was to tell them its a little better if you hold the butt end about an inch from your shoulder.. Twisted Evil

havent done that for years, and I think most would deck me these days for doing it. but it was fun when we were kids, and no one would get hurt.
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English Mike
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

I've shot a fair number of high power rifle rounds, from .338LM & .458Lott to .50BMG & honestly never feel the shot at the moment I pull the trigger.
The only time I have had some discomfort from shooting was after 2 days & over 1,000 rounds of 7.62 through the L1A1 - oh boy was my shoulder beat black & blue!

I miss the days of $0.10 a round surplus ammunition. Sad Very Happy
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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: spotting the dreaded flinch Reply with quote

www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

I'm sure most if not all of you have seen it, but you know me, always trying to stick my nose into the conversation, And I found this interesting anyway so I wanted to share. :-)


I always try to convince myself and others that there is no reason to fear recoil or to flinch when pulling the trigger, because the recoil and bang never happens until after you have pulled the trigger.
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