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Seeing rounds going down range?
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

How many people see rounds going down range when acting as a spotter?

I've clearly seen the trails on videos... and i know sniper teams zero in on a target from visible trails but how many of you guys see them while working ranges or whatnot? I honestly can say I've never seen a round go down range before.


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roklok
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

If the lighting is right it is certainly possible to see projectiles from relatively slow cartridges even at close ranges. I have seen bullets from 9mm and 45 ACP pistols quite often when plinking and target practice.It is usually easier to see when someone else is shooting but I have seen them from my own gun.It kind of freaked me out the first time I observed this but now it is pretty common.I have also seen large shot going through the air once while goose hunting,the lighting must have been perfect because I have never observed this again.
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

Many ranges orient to the north with the sun, then, toward the shooter's back. When shooting 600 and 1,000yd benchrest it is common to see the reflected flight of the bullet and/or the air disturbance caused by the bullet's wake. As a spotter with higher powered optics, it is even easier to observe. Lower velocity bullets from handguns, too, can be seen, although IM experience it is the bullet itself that is being observed.

What is often observed is not a simple arcing curve that we associate with trajectory, but wiggly contrails which are the result of mirage. This causes the bullet to seemingly rise, fall and swiggle toward the target.
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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

I'm with Roklok and Handloader. I have seen quite a few of mine and untold numbers of fellow shooters bullets going downrange, both rifle and pistol.

As both said, the sun needs to be in the right position and I found that if you were standing directly behind the shooter you stood a much better chance of seeing the flight of the bullet. In fact with slow moving pistol target loads....around 900fps....I could occasionally pick the score on the target before it hit, well a close guess anyway.

I found it fascinating to watch the flight of the bullet when spotting for a mate shooting pistol sillouette.

In all cases it helped if you were using either binos or a spotting scope, although they were not always needed.

Can't say I've seen it in a hunting scenario though. But then again I don't stand right on my mates shoulder watching for the bullet, got other things on my mind.

Cheers, Vince

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

Howdy. I have never noticed a round going down range, never realy looked for it though. I have seen a lot of tracer rounds though Wink Flag
Joe

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popgun
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

Your right about snipers using the vapor trails to determine corrections. The method is to position the spotting scope directly over the shooter in line with the bore or as close as possible to either side. Then adjust the focus short of the target until you begin seeing the trails. If you are seeing the trails in your rifle scope it's a fair to say your scope is not properly focused unless you want to see the trails in the scope on the rifle. The vapor trails are more visible at longer ranges 400+.
I know you like to muzzleload and if you stand to the upwind side of someone when they fire a 50 and up muzzleloader so that the smoke does not obstruct your view you will see the bullet traveling downrange without the aid of optics. Looks like a bumble bee. We played with a ML at sniper school firing at 400 yds and the bullets were clearly visible.

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mikekuzara
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

In the Army it was very easy to observe rounds going down range. This was very easy because we were shooting M-198, 155 mm Howitzers. From the ground, it looks like a bowling ball going away from you.

In my target shooting days, I was able to see my .22 standard velocity rounds going downrange. Of course this was in an indoor range with good lighting.

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deermanager
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

often see what looks like a shock wave whizzing away from me
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glockman55
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

When shooting our Pistols with the sun at our back we usually pick up sight of the round about two thirds of the way to the target, when it slows down a little.

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Flint54
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

Cool While I was in the service as a Small Arms Instructor I observed thousands of .45 bullets heading down range. When we switched over to the 9mm they were visible at times but not near what was seen with the .45s. I ahve also observed contrails from rifle bullets, 20mm, 25mm, 5" and 40mm grenades headed down range. It's amazing to see the changes in rifle bullet contrails when shooting at longer ranges, how the long range benchrest shooters cope with opposite wind direction over 1000yards is beyond me!! Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

mikekuzara wrote:
In the Army it was very easy to observe rounds going down range. This was very easy because we were shooting M-198, 155 mm Howitzers. From the ground, it looks like a bowling ball going away from you.

Gidday Mike, as an old Infantryman I went out to the gunline on occasion and watched the fire missions. The only 155mm that didn't look like bowling balls were the RAP rounds! It is the same with the 105mm. It was fun watching the prox rounds detonate early....like about halfway through their trajectory! 81mm Mortars are another round that are fun to watch until they disappear up high.

Howdy Flint54....40mm grenades travelling at about 72 mps are fairly easy to watch, and there is nothing better than the oh so satisfying CRUMP and cloud of black/grey smoke on impact. Never got sick of firing the M79 and M203. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Hi Joe, I loved watching tracer (4b1t in aussie link). Used to count the trace to control the length of the burst on the .50 and .30 in the M113 I used to Crew Command.

Damn I miss it. Sad Sad Crying or Very sad

Cheers, Vince

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

shrpshtrjoe wrote:
Howdy. I have never noticed a round going down range, never realy looked for it though. I have seen a lot of tracer rounds though Wink Flag
Joe

This one is for you Joe. I don't think it is off topic, but if it is I apologise to the Mods in advance.

Cheers, Vince



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Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

Shocked Shocked
Jaw Drop
I've got nothing to say execpt "wow" and are thouse legal to buy ?? Confused Very Happy

Maybe you could use it for 4th of July fireworks. Or for us Canadian's on the board on July 1st. And for Vince and the rest of our friends down under January 26th ROFL

As for the thread I havnt shot enough bullets to get used to seeing them or thought about looking for my rounds and where they go. Smile

Dimitri

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

Howdy Vince Very Happy There sure isn't a problem seeing those rounds. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving of that gun ship. I use to shoot the M60 out of the Chinook, tracer rounds are a great tool.
Joe

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kbis
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Seeing rounds going down range? Reply with quote

I have only seen 105 Howitizers going over my tent over seas and praying they didn't have a short round. Also the ocassional run by Puff when some not to nice people came by :).
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