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Lack of enforcement ...
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Dimitri
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Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:43 am    Post subject: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

www.cbc.ca/news/canada...ml?ref=rss

Quote::
A Markham, Ont., man was fined $50,000 for possession of a live, invasive fish.

Justice of the Peace Holly Debacker levied the fine in the Ontario Court of Justice in Windsor, Ont., on Wednesday, and ordered Feng Yang to forfeit more than 1,800 kilograms of Asian carp.

He was also given a three-year probation order that prohibits him from possessing any invasive species. It was his second conviction, according to the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources.

Yang owns a fish importing company in Markham, and pleaded guilty to the charge.

It has been illegal to have live invasive fish in Ontario since 2005. The prohibited species include bighead, grass, black and silver carp because they pose a threat to the province's lake systems.

So he got fined 12$ a pound, which is if memory serves double the retail cost per pound of live carp. And got a 3 year probation restricting him on owning something that's illegal already, so what after 3 years his probation makes him immune to the law?

Whoopee Dee Do. Rolling Eyes

Dimitri

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

What a bunch of bs, who knows how long he's been doing this, now all the great lakes and some rivers have been infected with this species.

Great Lakes Infected with Asian Carp

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

I got to be honest, the only carp released on purpose to Ontario's waters were done by the government, or by people who got tired of their pets (Koi and Gold fish which are both relatively speaking "small" compared to the Carp the government released). No one has released them to date on purpose to create a fishery here.

The bigger issue is that even if they escape in numbers into the great lakes, we have natural perdator fish that would eat them, but we have over fished their numbers.

All the solutions are attempting to do is slow their spread, they do little in the way to remove them completely, and if that is not possible make it a economically viable situation. Such as by, creating a "bounty" on them by allowing fishermen to legally sell their catches would never be allowed, even though it will cause many fishermen to attempt to catch as many as possible.

Dimitri

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

Invasive fish or other animals can really turn an ecosystem upside down. The release of Brown Trout in the Grand Tetons is threatening Yellowstone's entire way of life, which is based on the Cut-throat Trout. The Cut-throat Trout spawn in the tributary creeks of Yellowstone Lake and the Snake River during Spring and the eagles, bears, etc rely on this event to feed their young. Brown Trout spawn in the fall and eat Cut-Throat hatchlings. If the Cut-Throat Trout parishes, so do the eagles, bears, and others.

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inthedark
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2011/03/04/wndsr-asian-carp.html?ref=rss

Quote::
A Markham, Ont., man was fined $50,000 for possession of a live, invasive fish.

Justice of the Peace Holly Debacker levied the fine in the Ontario Court of Justice in Windsor, Ont., on Wednesday, and ordered Feng Yang to forfeit more than 1,800 kilograms of Asian carp.

He was also given a three-year probation order that prohibits him from possessing any invasive species. It was his second conviction, according to the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources.

Yang owns a fish importing company in Markham, and pleaded guilty to the charge.

It has been illegal to have live invasive fish in Ontario since 2005. The prohibited species include bighead, grass, black and silver carp because they pose a threat to the province's lake systems.

So he got fined 12$ a pound, which is if memory serves double the retail cost per pound of live carp. And got a 3 year probation restricting him on owning something that's illegal already, so what after 3 years his probation makes him immune to the law?

Whoopee Dee Do. Rolling Eyes

Dimitri

You are right Dimitri about the small amount per pound but your math os off its $14/lb. If this was persued under the federal fisheries act, the prohibition of possessing an illegal invasive species (sic) would make more sense in that, should there be subsequent offenses committed by Mr Yang, Fishery Officers could seek leave to seek greater punishment from the court. Under the provincial acts unfortunately, this legislation is held in front of a JP instead of a Judge. The fine though is really light as this is his second offence under this act. He could have been fined $1 million. There is a LOT of illegal activity in the asian communitys in Ontario and for that matter everywhere in Canada. I have dealt with some of it myself. I am surprized that the officers didn't go after the vehicle and everything used in the commission of the offence to be forfeited to the crown also. Well I am sure that the officers did the best they could and no sense in me or anyone else armchair quarterbacking them now. Main thing is that they got the conviction and the news story out. Sad to say that until the courts and the public get it through their heads that these invasive species are destroying our country (both countries USA included) and costing our nations billions of dollars and wasting our natural resources to boot. The apple box is now open for the next speaker.
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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

Chino...I'll jump up there mate.

We have a horrendous problem with carp in our river systems over here...so much so that many native species have been all but eliminated by their mere presence...they are bottom feeders.

It is illegal to return carp to the water if you catch them...and in fact they have regular fishing comps to try and clean them out. There has even been an industry rise up from the disposal of these feral fish...its called Charlie Carp and is basically minced up carp turned into garden fertilizer...supposed to be pretty good too.

The Asians are notorious for not giving a "tinker's curse" about the environment...so long as things suit their wants they are happy.

Cheers, Vince

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inthedark
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
Chino...I'll jump up there mate.

We have a horrendous problem with carp in our river systems over here...so much so that many native species have been all but eliminated by their mere presence...they are bottom feeders.

It is illegal to return carp to the water if you catch them...and in fact they have regular fishing comps to try and clean them out. There has even been an industry rise up from the disposal of these feral fish...its called Charlie Carp and is basically minced up carp turned into garden fertilizer...supposed to be pretty good too.

The Asians are notorious for not giving a "tinker's curse" about the environment...so long as things suit their wants they are happy.

Cheers, Vince


I am SO GLAD you said your last sentence because I can't. My employer would take a very dim view of me speaking truthfully. FULLY TRUTH!
The only way to be sure of getting all of these fish out is to kill the stream and then rekill it several times and when its been certified sterile then reintroduce the native species back into the system. Dimitri made a comment about the government releaseing carp into native streams in Ontario. That may and I say may be true back in the 70's but it is highly unlikely that it has happened in the last 25 years. Just an FYI.
After the Viet Nam war ended and the US started to accept refugees from Viet Nam i.e. the Hmong tribesmen, there was a problem in Minnesota where the tribesmen would go out in a small boat and use primative methods of fishing and not come home until the entire boat was full of fish.
The people had no idea of a fishing licence or quota, they just knew to feed their family. The State government got some of the young 14 -15 year old Hmong kids and educated them to become game officers and work in their communities to help change the traditional hunter/fisher methods and to educate their people on how to use the resource and not abuse the resource. The Hmong were generally very proud of becoming American and also proud of being good and honest people. It was a wise politician/public servant that came up with this plan and it worked very well.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

You are right my math was off, I typed 1880 kg into my calculator by accident.

Anyways, remember the big Goldfish picture floating around the net? This is the guys story:

translate.google.com/t...6prmd%3Div

Dimitri

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inthedark
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

Unbelievible site!
Bravo Zulu Dimitri

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

Apparently the guy makes his living with a fish farm, specializing in live Asian fish, not just carp. I bet the disruption to the fish markets in this part of the country of legitimate fish is the reason he didn't get fined more or get jail time.

Dimitri

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radar
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

We have problems in some of our rivers with koi Carp but they can get up to 5 kg in size, there are dedicated hunters of Koi using Bow and Arrow especially in the lower Waikato River system, and heres something good to do with the fish, they make excellent burley (Chum) for sea fishing. Schnapper just love it!

As for enviromental rapists - you can't beat the asians, they eat ANYTHING, either that or claim its and aphrodisiac! Tiger penises - get out of here!

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

radar wrote:
We have problems in some of our rivers with koi Carp but they can get up to 5 kg in size, there are dedicated hunters of Koi using Bow and Arrow especially in the lower Waikato River system, and heres something good to do with the fish, they make excellent burley (Chum) for sea fishing. Schnapper just love it!

As for enviromental rapists - you can't beat the asians, they eat ANYTHING, either that or claim its and aphrodisiac! Tiger penises - get out of here!

Its awesome berley mate...as you say...the good fish love it...and you can't beat a nice big "knobby" on the barbie.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
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Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

It is ok, with time the snakeheads that have been released will feed on the carp. Replacing the musky who's virtually gone already as our waterway's top predator.

Life somewhat comes full circle even with idiot humans mucking things up. Confused

Dimitri

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inthedark
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Apparently the guy makes his living with a fish farm, specializing in live Asian fish, not just carp. I bet the disruption to the fish markets in this part of the country of legitimate fish is the reason he didn't get fined more or get jail time.

Dimitri
Do you have any idea where this guys farm is at?
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of enforcement ... Reply with quote

Somewhere in Ontario, hence why has was able to keep 1,800kg's of carp alive, it seems.

The local Mandarin Chinese newspaper had a article about him and the fine.

Dimitri

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