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anyone else loading .410?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

Dallan had posted this link in a thread about loading shotguns:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._diameter)

Seems our .410 is actually a 67.62 gauge...

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

Thanks for the link Pumkin,
I sorted out and cleaned the 444 cases and tried them all to see if they would fit in my 2 shotguns I have for the 410 and yes they do. Since I have plenty of #2-4-5 and 7 shot I'm going to give it a whirl. Even thou the cases were once fired, I ran them thru a die to make sure, I fired 9gr of little gun and oatmeal, this is to fireform the case to the chamber even thou I didn't have to (just to be safe) with this 444 case. I'm using a LP primer in the hull and using a hollow punch set from snap-on tools to make the wads from cardboard. I then lubed the wads (both undershot and top with beeswax) then sealed the top with elmers glue. Tomorrow I hit the range and will let you know.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:37 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

When you only use 1 wad of cardboard undershot, I think you're going to blow your pattern. Add a piece of toiletpaper between that wad and your shot as a buffer. You'll be amazed what you can do with toiletpaper Smile
Newspaper also works fine, but than you also have to punch it. Toiletpaper is nicely devided into equal pieces + is soft enough to just bring it in.

Keep in mind that I didn't write "used toilet paper" Smile
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

Aloys wrote:
Keep in mind that I didn't write "used toilet paper"

Yuck Now that isn't a pretty picture...adds a whole new dimension to the term "dirty bore".

I don't load .410...but a mate does and we both use his wee little .410 to shoot clays, and it does a great job. I have also used the .410 to shot fox, and again...very effective. I am seriosly considering getting a set of .410 tubes for my 12g O/U shotgun so I can get more use out of my one and only shotgun.

Cheers, Vince

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

Thanks for the tip Aloys, I will load 10 more rounds with "NEW" tp. Hopefully I can make it out there before the rain hits.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

Just got back from range and all I can say it was sad. Sad
I loaded up 20 brass 444 cases, 10 were with Aloys suggestion and 10 were done before I read his post. Load data as follows.
.410 Brass case Load
R-P .444 cases fireformed to my 410-bore shotgun
R-P Large Pistol primer
14.5 grains H110
⅛" card wad; ¼" filler wad, tp on other 10 rounds as per Aloys.
⅝ oz shot #7 and 1/2; and a card over-shot wad glued in with light coating around the edges with Elmers glue and no crimp.
I set the 3x3 cardboard 15 yards from muzzle and using the first 10 shots, I was lucky if I had a 6' pattern........ Sad
Then using Aloys tip, at the same yardage, it got down to about 3' which was way better. Needless to say this is a good experiment and next weekend will head back out and try again. The wife wanted to stop at wally world on the way back home and I wandered in to the sports area and Remington 410 shells #5 shot 3" are now $21.39.. wtf
So, I figure its worth while for me to experiment a little longer before buying a press for a 410 again.
I did have a few leftover wads for the 410 bore but they don't fit inside the 444 cases,
Midway has full brass shells MagTech for the 410 and was wondering if anyone who has done this knows if the wads will fit in these shells?

Vince, I'm ready for a beer..... Very Happy

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

Omni try some different shot sizes. my old .410 loved #4 but hated #5 #6 I have some #7.5 bought loads that are 1/2oz and are plurry hopeless.you can even put 1/2oz #4 and 1/4oz of #7,5 and give it a whirl.

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

told ya them 410 was pricey.

if the wad diamter is too big split it lentghwise, then, sand the halves on a table top a bit to fit in the case to make a sabot. trim the base/petals as nec just below rim. top it with a thin card cap. glue, no crimp. myabe even leve the petals long and fold over and glue to mimmick a fold crimp.

try red dot or unique. id go a little less at first and work up. chek fer stuck wad between rounds.


Last edited by stovepipe on Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
Just to further confuse the discussion a bit a 2 1/2" 410 shotshell when loaded and crimped is only 2" long. The rest of the length is folded over in the crimp. Once fired they are 2 1/2".

yepper! lots dont know this.
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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

If you want a tighter pattern?
Use less powder,
use smaller shot (the smaller shotsize obeys better to the choke + usually contains more Sb, so is harder),
use a wad (even make it yourself with a piece of plastic that used to protect papers. Cut it to right length and role it into a cylinder. Once out of the barrel the cylinder will open and the wad is gone without disturbing the shot),
tremble some bakingflower between the shot,
make your shotcolumn shorter (less shot can give you more pellets on target!),

and maybe it's a good thing to check the roundness of your shot. Shooting over larger distances means starting with round shot and try to keep all dents away till it has left the barrel. Anything that helps to keep your shot a nice round ball will give you tighter patterns.

Use a shotshell that fits the chamber of the rifle. A shell that's to short for the chamber makes open and close the wad between end of shell and end of chamber, which will disturb the shot. I think Beretta advertises to use special shape of that cone at the end of their 3" chambers so that it disturbs less when using a 2 3/4" shell.

I think that's some food for discussion.
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips Aloys and Stovey, I cut 10 wads in half and sanded them to make them fit inside the 444 cases. I'm going to use 2 grains less powder and the same 7½ shot. The shotgun I'm using is chambered for 2½" and the 444 just falls under 2.25". I'm out of Unique and red dot, but have alliant 300mp, herc, 2400, imr4227, clays. I have used dow bathroom caulk and elmers glue, either one leaves a little mess after shooting. From googling a few sites, a few said to use Duco cement (glue), since I have 10 already made and will head out tomorrow am, I'll try the Duco on future loads.

Edit: one thing I forgot to add, I went and picked up 1/8" cork/rubber gasket material at the local auto shop and punched my own cushion wads. If it's not raining I will post pictures of the patterns.



444-410.jpg
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Here's the shell with dow bathroom caulk.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

I cut out my cardboard wads with a cut off brass case in the power drill, it works a treat.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:56 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

Elvis, that's a nice trick.

And when I put together some do's and don't's about tight patterns I forgot to mention to be carefull when you do things that could increase pressure. The gunpowder used in shotcartridges is rather fast and doesn't forgive overloads...
that's why they mention shell, wad, primer, load, ... in data about shotshellreloading. When you change something start again with a safe load! Even if you change wads or so and sure when you start to add bakingflower as filling material.

Or use coarse blackpowder (or Pyrodex) which is extremely well suited for shotgunning and adds an extra dimention with its smoke and smell Smile
but watch out when you use them for hunting and the forrest is rather dry.

And talking about such thing makes the desire growing again, so I put a mount on my Maverick cal 12 pump, searched my Lyman slugmould and hope to make some smoke next weekend (as huntingseason for roedeer, female and young ones, stops today).
So when you spot some clouds in the sky next weekend and they are not coming from Japan...
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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

use a little, a little nail polish or something similar for capping the load over a very thin card or paper. ya want something that will both hold and fail fast. something that gets brittle when it dries yet snaps when pressure builds. i use 2 cases for cutting wad caps. one reamed from the inside for the top, one reamed from the outside for the bottom. forester inside-out deburrer etc works a treat for this.
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: anyone else loading .410? Reply with quote

I'm hoping to get out to the range this weekend as the wife had a few things on her list for me to do.
Stovey, Next batch I make I will use nail polish, I think the war department will give me the ok.

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