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Late Christmas Gift to myself
Discussions run-amok, innane banter it all goes here
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13138
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Late Christmas Gift to myself Reply with quote

Gelan is right about "popping" the block mate. We used to do it in a quarry...popping big blocks of marble using gelignite. We would break off about an inch or so off the stick, drill a hole, put a det on some safety fuse, poke the det and fuse into the piece of geli, put the geli into the aforementioned hole, carefully pack the hole with dirt, light the fuse and get out of the way. POP...rock breaks into 3 or 4 pieces that can be further broken up with a sledge hammer.

Not a lot of noise and it did the job without scattering rock everywhere. But maybe it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do within the city limits mate...might upset the populace. wtf Very Happy Very Happy Laughing

Cheers, Vince

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44marty
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Location: Cheshire, MA; USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Late Christmas Gift to myself Reply with quote

Vince wrote:

Not a lot of noise and it did the job without scattering rock everywhere. But maybe it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do within the city limits mate...might upset the populace. wtf Very Happy Very Happy Laughing

Cheers, Vince

Haha - around here you'd have neighbors showing up with racks of beer.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Late Christmas Gift to myself Reply with quote

Take it from me, a pinch of smokeless pistol powder wont give much noise at all..
provided it is nicely enclosed near the center of the mass..
Dont go overboard, experiment like you did on reloading, start small and grow as required.

The faster the powder, usually the less noise you would make.

When I get my powder monkey certificate, we use to crack pieces of boulder with a spoonful of black powder.
Sound not much louder than a balloon being popped.

Start with very little powder, a few grains !! You just want to crack the ice, not hurl it out at speed of sound.

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PaulS
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Joined: Feb 18, 2006
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Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Late Christmas Gift to myself Reply with quote

Take it from a guy who has done some of this stuff.....
Don't do it!
First - I do believe that there is no problem so large or small that it can't be solved with an appropriate amount of high explosives - the problem is that the difference between an appropriate amount and "OH MY GOD!" is a very fine line. Smokeless powder won't work unless you find a way to compress it in ice. The the power released triples each time you double the charge with proportionate space. Black powder would be much easier and safer to use but it has to be kept dry until it goes off.
Placing a charge in the middle of a mass of ice is how to make a fragmentary device - ice is actually more flexible than rock and by the time you get enough powder to break it you will send large pieces over the neighborhood at relatively high rates of speed. Surprised
the reason is that the heat generated will melt a small amount of the water and then in the next millisecond turn it to huge amounts of super heated steam just as the pressure finally builds to the point where it breaks the ice. The steam takes over - expanding well beyond the area of force of the black powder and a lot denser than it too. that makes your big chunks of ice move outward from that center point with vigor.
If you want a faster way to get rid of it just lay a 1/2 cup of rifle powder (slow burning) over the top and light it. It will leave behind a nice layer of ash that will absorb sunlight and melt it away. You could always use an ax to break it apart which would even be faster and cheaper. Smile

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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Late Christmas Gift to myself Reply with quote

WOW Paul...your explanation makes it sound like more and more fun mate. Laughing

Seriously though...I must agree with you. Without a doubt, the best way is with a good heavy axe or sledge hammer, and the exercise will help keep you warm.

Nowhere near as much fun though mate...snicker snicker.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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PaulS
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Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Late Christmas Gift to myself Reply with quote

Yep it was lots of fun - right up to the point that the ice around that waterfall came apart.....
It is funny now but back then I thought I should have used smaller steps and not put them charges quite as deep.
I was a little less patient and a lot more inquisitive back then. I have since learned that high explosives break things and slower explosives move things.... dynamite would have been much better than black powder.

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gelandangan
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Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:04 am    Post subject: Re: Late Christmas Gift to myself Reply with quote

Ah, Okay..

Although, I really believe that a fast powder would have a lot of brisancce and will expend most of the energy in cracking the ice;
where slower powder with a lot of heave power will turn the fragments into projectile.

I never have enough ice to do it on to, so I have never try it on ice.
Ok, forget my suggestion, apparently it is silly..

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