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Glock Glock Glock
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Suzanne
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Joined: Jun 27, 2009
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Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:06 pm    Post subject: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

I decided to change my Glock's trigger pull connector to a 3.5lb. It works great but I dunno if it's the ammo or the gun, but I noticed the slide was rather slow a few times and I had a few fail to fire rounds. One was indented in the primer and the others just didn't chamber. I have a Glock 23, 40S&W and was using Remington 165gr booolits. Mostly I was going about it slow fire but I also did a clip at rapid fire. Had problems both ways. Anybody got any ideas? (ya know....about the gun) I figured it's probably the ammo, seems I remember the indented primers before now. Maybe the feed ramp?


ever-powerful
Suz

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

Suz, I have Glocks with the 3.5 lb trigger bar. Is yours a Glock 3.5 lb trigger bar? I wouldn't use one that isn't made by Glock.

I suggest you look at three things. First, reinstall your stock 5.0 lb trigger bar and see if the fail to fire problem goes away. If it does, the 3.5 ramp could be releasing the firing pin early.

Second, I've had my magazine springs weaken overtime. When the spring weakens, it doesn't push the bullet tip up far enough to feed right up the ramp and it jams or fails to feed. I'll get 3 or four rounds out then the jam occurs. I had this happen on 3 mags after 10 to 15 years and typically in the mags I keep loaded for carry purposes. Glock replaced them at a Glock-out for me (see below).

Third, the only other time I have had a failure to feed is when I didn't hold the pistol tight enough - limp wrist. I couldn't believe it when another Glock shooter told me that was the problem but sure enough it was. Maybe the lighter trigger caused you to not grip the pistol as tight as normal.

Have you considered joining to Glock Sport Shooting Foundation? There are two Glock-outs in your state. They are great fun and they have a gunsmith there that will go over your gun and make sure its up-to-date with mods and functioning up to par.

gssfonline.com/


June 5 - 6, 2010
Portland, Oregon
Tri-County Gun Club

October 30 - 31, 2010
Albany, Oregon
Albany Rifle & Pistol Club

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

Oh thanks SlimJ!! I'll have to check out all the particulars. They all make sense to me. Yeah my magazine stays loaded, it could be a weak spring. Yeah I probably didn't hold it very tight. It is NOT a Glock trigger bar. I gotta check out a few things thanks!

Suz

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okiephil
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:31 am    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

Ditto on the limp wrist, it will stop a glock in a hurry. I have 6 high capacity mags for mine, and rotate them out every couple of months, to keep from setting the spring. pull off the base plate to the mag and stretch the spring out a bit and put it back together.

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slimjim
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Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

okiephil wrote:
pull off the base plate to the mag and stretch the spring out a bit and put it back together.

okiephil, you reminded me. Suz, if you can determine that a particular mag was used when it had a failure to feed, remove the base plate from the mag and extract the spring. Then do it with your other mags or ones that don't have a failure to feed problem and compare the spring height. The gunsmith at the Glock-Out showed me that trick. The mags with shorter are problematic.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

Don't have Glock, but I have friends who do...

www.taylorpress.com/G2...%201-1.pdf

and they also recommend:

glocktalk.com/forums/s...p?t=851754
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slimjim
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Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

Aloys, thanks for the pointers. The gunsmith refered to in the second post just moved to FW. Hopefully, I'll see him at the gun show this weekend and pick up his slide lock.

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Aloysius
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Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

SJ, I have to admit that I bought yesterday my third 'plastic' gun, so maybe 1 day I will also join the Glockparty (or is it Tuperware?).
So now I have such a Maverick cal 12 pumpgun, a Remington Sendero? in 300 WM and since yesterday something with a Butler Creek stock, a Mauser K98 action and a .222 R varmint barrel, completed with 3-9x56 (cheap) optics. It's new and I think it's made by a good gunsmith because it has a very pleasant trigger. It doesn't look that great, but there are showgirls and working women...
isn't it strange that a young boy always want long and heavy things, big calibers, ... and growing older one start to like the little handy things. Is it that one doesn't have to prove himself anymore, or is it just that wiser men are more confident?

and all started with Suz having problems with some plastic toys...
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

Suz, I've got friends that shoot Glocks that ran into the same problem !!!

Seems to be a issue with how hard the striker hits the primer. Look for burrs or contact points that aren't smooth, maybe a drop of oil will help. I know one guy changed to a different brand of connector and solved his problem and another now runs CCI primers.

Hope that helps you !!!

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Suzanne
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Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

Thanks guys ..... now I have a lot to do and no time to do it.....I'll get on it!

Suz

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Elvis
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Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

are you guys telling me that glocks have a built in feature that prevents gays from using them??? is this why all the hoohar re gays in the military do the guns not like limp wrists??

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

Well Elvis...anyone with a limp wrist, or "limp wrists" a semi auto pistol on firing, will have a problem with more than one type of semi auto pistol.

I've actually seen this happen with a couple of different brands and calibre of semi auto. The limp wrist actually absorbs that much of the recoil that the action doesn't function correctly...the slide does not go all the way back, giving you either a stove pipe stoppage, a double feed or even a failure to feed (pick up a round from the magazine).

Cheers, Vince

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English Mike
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Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

Note that keeping magazines loaded in no way weakens the spring; it is the constant cycling of the spring that gradually does that.
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slimjim
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Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

English Mike wrote:
keeping magazines loaded in no way weakens the spring;

English Mike, sometimes I'm a doubting Thomas. I going to look for evidence that keeping a spring in compression doesn't change its uncompressed length.

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tlo7mm
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Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Glock Glock Glock Reply with quote

I found this on another forum and was interested to find out that its an exerpt from an article on the subject. Thought you guys would find it interesting.


The shooting sports are full of some of the most knowledgeable and capable people you'll meet anywhere. I've been impressed consistently with the abilities of those I meet at the range to diagnose and fix a gun problem with as little as some spray lube and a cotton swab. However, sometimes a myth will creep into the folklore.

The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?

Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.

Shameful Spring Benders

To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.

Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender.

Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.

We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing.

At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring.

As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement.

Trust Us

When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur.

When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly.

Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth.

RELATED ARTICLE: Definitions

Creep: The flow or plastic deformation of metals held for long periods of time at stresses lower than the normal yield strength.

Elastic Limit: The maximum stress that material will stand before permanent deformation occurs.

Yield Strength: The stress at which the metal changes from elastic to plastic in behavior, i.e., takes a permanent set.

Permanent Set: Non-elastic or plastic, deformation of metal under stress, after passing the elastic limit.

Magazine Recommendations

* Clean your magazines when they get gritty. Apply oil then remove all excess. Oil attracts dirt that may cause malfunction.

* If you find rust on the spring, this is culprit. Rust changes the thickness of the metal and reduces the force applied to the follower. Cleaning off the rust may help. For a gun you depend on, replace the spring. All the major brands and most of the smaller ones have replacement mag springs available or try Wolff Springs.

* If you keep a magazine loaded for long periods, rotate the rounds every few months. If you carry a pistol on the job or in your car, cycle the ammo frequently. These actions prevent creases from forming which may cause a misfeed.

* If you experience feed problems, first clean your magazines and weapon. Fire a couple magazines of new factory ammo to see if this resolves the problem. If not send the magazine back to the manufacturer -- or toss it.

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