Excellent articles(2) Slim

I wrote in your first post about my old Steven's bolt single shot that I cut to 18", now this weekend the wife and I are headed out to the range with the new chrony. My brother in law shot the last one I had and just got the new one in today.

Since the old Stevens bolt action was cut down to 18" and re-crowned, it will be interesting to test as I have cci, win, rem loads. I'm debating whether to take the Rem M77 22 to the range also, just might.

Ominivision1 wrote:

Since the old Stevens bolt action was cut down to 18" and re-crowned, it will be interesting to test as I have cci, win, rem loads. I'm debating whether to take the Rem M77 22 to the range also, just might.

Thanks, OV1. Take them both, the more the merrier!

slimjim wrote:

gelandangan wrote: Slim could you try and slug the barrels off the two experiments? My guess is the barrel on experiment 1 would be a tad larger than that of the experiment 2. gelandangan, I'm a bit confused. With respect to the Marlin 39, it was the same barrel in both experiments. I can run a slug to determine bore diameter if you like but there is only one barrel to do that on.

Sorry Slim, looks like I am the one who is confused.
I did not explain exactly what I got in mind..

I mean, to try and slug the barrels you used in the experiment that have silmilar or close in the length.
The 10/22 has 18.5" barrel, this is 1.5 inch difference to the 20 inch marlin,
yet with similar load you are getting similar velocity.

That make me curious in regards to difference in length VS barrel tightness VS velocity.

I got back out to the range today. Had to take the day off or lose it! I shot a 20-round string of the Federal Value Pack 36 grain HP. I got an average velocity of 1227 fps with a std dev of 19 fps. This is pretty close to the outing 2 days ago, 1237 fps with std dev of 20 fps. Today's temp was about 3 degrees warming.

gelandangan, when I get this barrel finished, I'll test again with the other three guns and slug the barrels to see if there is a correlation. Marlin also has their micro-groove rifling that could make a difference.

Took a day off work to head to the range and here's the results.

22LR muzzle Rem M77 Apache 19 1/2" barrel 45F

Rem 1240, 1260, 1249 40gr thunderbolt
Rem 1390, 1381, 1361 36gr viper
Rem 1295, 1281, 1270 38gr classic hp
CCI 1245, 1250, 1271 40gr blazer


22LR & Short

muzzle Steven's Springfield M83 24" barrel

Rem 1210, 1221, 1211 40gr thunderbolt
Rem 1350, 1335, 1351 36gr viper
Rem 710, 695, 699 29gr short
Fed 1210, 1185 1220 38gr classic hp
CCI 1180, 1161, 1190 40gr blazer

The above were 3 shot groups with each load at 45 degrees outside.

Now the question is why did the autoloader shoot faster then the
bolt action?

Ominivision1 wrote:

Now the question is why did the autoloader shoot faster then the bolt action?

Could be barrel length, chamber dimensions, bore condition, phase of the moon ...

I agree but would lean towards the bore having a smoother more consistent finish !!!

Well the old stevens M83 was my granpas gun and they were made from 1935-1942, so I can imagine how the throat is wore on that gun.

Agree with chambered that the bore of the Rem M77 is probably better ... and ... its shorter barrel length didn't hurt it any.

gelandangan wrote:

try and slug the barrels you used in the experiment

gelandangan, is this what you mean? I pressed a .224 50gr HP into the muzzle of the Marlin 39A (now just a 2" piece). Its 0.222" in diameter. Shows Marlin's microgroove rifling pretty well.

Yes slim thanks.

0.222 is just on the spot for the SAAMI specs..
Would that mean that the Ruger 10/22 have smaller diameter?

gelandangan wrote:

Would that mean that the Ruger 10/22 have smaller diameter?

All the other 22's have their barrels still attached to their receivers. I'll see if I can come up with a way to slug them also.

Slim...pull...VERY CAREFULLY...a bullet from a rimfire round...its solid lead and will go through the barrel much easier than a jacketed bullet mate.

Cheers, Vince

Ok, I'll use a .22LR lead bullet. I can get a rod in to knock the bullet back out in the 16" barrel M&P but I've not got a way to get the slug back out of the 10/22 unless I knock it all the way down the barrel and out the breech. Do I really want to do that?

Slim, you do not have to pull the barrel out of receiver to slug a barrel.



Usually I use soft pure lead (close to BHN 5) to do barrel slugging, I cast a bullet using stick on wheel weights or roofing lead.
As Vince said you can also pull a projectile from a rimfire (carefully removed from the shell), or you can use a round lead fishing sinker that is close to the diameter of the barrel you are slugging.
You can (carefully) tap the lead to make it slightly larger diameter.

I usually slug barrels with a handfull of short (10 cm or 4") wooden dowels with diameter slightly smaller than the barrel lands diameter.
First oil the barrel thoroughly using an oil soaked patch all the way through from breech to muzzle.

Then carefully tap the sinker (or lead projectile) using a plastic mallet into the muzzle to start the lead slug,
then tap in successive dowels one on top of another till the slug emerge on the breech.
Keep the tapping motion as even as possible so you can "feel" the slug movement in the barrel.

The movement of the slug as you tap in the dowels can tell you as to whether or not your barrel is even in diameter,
or flaring towards the muzzle or breech.
On a tapered barrel with smaller muzzle diameter, you will find that the slug movement is getting easier as it get closer to breech,
and vice versa it get harder to move for a taper with smaller breech.

This (the taper) would also effect the muzzle velocity of a particular gun.