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2012 End of the world?
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

This is heavy stuff, so...get yourself a drink or two before you sit down to read and take it all in... Very Happy Very Happy Razz





A typical Mayan date looks like this: 12.18.16.2.6, 3 Cimi 4 Zotz.

12.18.16.2.6 is the Long Count date.
3 Cimi is the Tzolkin date.
4 Zotz is the Haab date.

What is the Long Count?

The Long Count is really a mixed base-20/base-18 representation of a number, representing the number of days since the start of the Mayan era. It is thus akin to the Julian Day Number.

The basic unit is the kin (day), which is the last component of the Long Count. Going from right to left the remaining components are:

uinal......(1 uinal = 20 kin = 20 days)
tun........(1 tun = 18 uinal = 360 days = approx. 1 year)
katun.....(1 katun = 20 tun = 7,200 days = approx. 20 years)
baktun...(1 baktun = 20 katun = 144,000 days = approx. 394 years)

The kin, tun, and katun are numbered from 0 to 19.
The uinal are numbered from 0 to 17.
The baktun are numbered from 1 to 13.

Although they are not part of the Long Count, the Mayas had names for larger time spans. The following names are sometimes quoted, although they are not ancient Maya terms:

1 pictun = 20 baktun = 2,880,000 days = approx. 7885 years
1 calabtun = 20 pictun = 57,600,000 days = approx. 158,000 years
1 kinchiltun = 20 calabtun = 1,152,000,000 days = approx. 3 million years
1 alautun = 20 kinchiltun = 23,040,000,000 days = approx. 63 million years

The alautun is probably the longest named period in any calendar.

When did the Long Count Start?

Logically, the first date in the Long Count should be 0.0.0.0.0, but as the baktun (the first component) are numbered from 1 to 13 rather than 0 to 12, this first date is actually written 13.0.0.0.0.

The authorities disagree on what 13.0.0.0.0 corresponds to in our calendar. I have come across three possible equivalences:

13.0.0.0.0 = 8 Sep 3114 BC (Julian) = 13 Aug 3114 BC (Gregorian)
13.0.0.0.0 = 6 Sep 3114 BC (Julian) = 11 Aug 3114 BC (Gregorian)
13.0.0.0.0 = 11 Nov 3374 BC (Julian) = 15 Oct 3374 BC (Gregorian)

Assuming one of the first two equivalences, the Long Count will again reach 13.0.0.0.0 on 21 or 23 December AD 2012 - a not too distant future.

The date 13.0.0.0.0 may have been the Mayas’ idea of the date of the creation of the world.

What is the Tzolkin?

The Tzolkin date is a combination of two "week" lengths.

While our calendar uses a single week of seven days, the Mayan calendar used two different lengths of week:

* a numbered week of 13 days, in which the days were numbered from 1 to 13
* a named week of 20 days, in which the names of the days were:

0. Ahau..........1. Imix..........2. Ik..........3. Akbal..........4. Kan
5. Chicchan.....6. Cimi.........7. Manik.....8. Lamat.........9. Muluc
10. Oc............11. Chuen....12. Eb.......13. Ben...........14. Ix
15. Men..........16. Cib.........17. Caban..18. Etznab......19. Caunac

Maya days

The diagram at below shows the day symbols, in the same order as the table above.



As the named week is 20 days and the smallest Long Count digit is 20 days, there is synchrony between the two; if, for example, the last digit of today’s Long Count is 0, today must be Ahau; if it is 6, it must be Cimi. Since the numbered and the named week were both "weeks," each of their name/number change daily; therefore, the day after 3 Cimi is not 4 Cimi, but 4 Manik, and the day after that, 5 Lamat. The next time Cimi rolls around, 20 days later, it will be 10 Cimi instead of 3 Cimi. The next 3 Cimi will not occur until 260 (or 13 x 20) days have passed. This 260-day cycle also had good-luck or bad-luck associations connected with each day, and for this reason, it became known as the "divinatory year."

The "years" of the Tzolkin calendar are not counted.

When did the Tzolkin Start?

Long Count 13.0.0.0.0 corresponds to 4 Ahau. The authorities agree on this.

What is the Haab?

The Haab was the civil calendar of the Mayas. It consisted of 18 "months" of 20 days each, followed by 5 extra days, known as Uayeb. This gives a year length of 365 days.

The names of the month were:
1. Pop..........7. Yaxkin..........13. Mac
2. Uo ...........8. Mol...............14. Kankin
3. Zip...........9. Chen............15. Muan
4. Zotz........10. Yax.............16. Pax
5. Tzec........11. Zac.............17. Kayab
6. Xul..........12. Ceh.............18. Cumku

In contrast to the Tzolkin dates, the Haab month names changed every 20 days instead of daily; so the day after 4 Zotz would be 5 Zotz, followed by 6 Zotz ... up to 19 Zotz, which is followed by 0 Tzec.

The days of the month were numbered from 0 to 19. This use of a 0th day of the month in a civil calendar is unique to the Maya system; it is believed that the Mayas discovered the number zero, and the uses to which it could be put, centuries before it was discovered in Europe or Asia.

The Uayeb days acquired a very derogatory reputation for bad luck; known as "days without names" or "days without souls," and were observed as days of prayer and mourning. Fires were extinguished and the population refrained from eating hot food. Anyone born on those days was "doomed to a miserable life."

The years of the Haab calendar are not counted.

The length of the Tzolkin year was 260 days and the length of the Haab year was 365 days. The smallest number that can be divided evenly by 260 and 365 is 18,980, or 365×52; this was known as the Calendar Round. If a day is, for example, "4 Ahau 8 Cumku," the next day falling on "4 Ahau 8 Cumku" would be 18,980 days or about 52 years later.

Among the Aztec, the end of a Calendar Round was a time of public panic as it was thought the world might be coming to an end. When the Pleaides crossed the horizon on 4 Ahau 8 Cumku, they knew the world had been granted another 52-year extension.

When did the Haab Start?

Long Count 13.0.0.0.0 corresponds to 8 Cumku. The authorities agree on this.

Did the Mayas Think a Year Was 365 Days?

Although there were only 365 days in the Haab year, the Mayas were aware that a year is slightly longer than 365 days, and in fact, many of the month-names are associated with the seasons; Yaxkin, for example, means "new or strong sun" and, at the beginning of the Long Count, 1 Yaxkin was the day after the winter solstice, when the sun starts to shine for a longer period of time and higher in the sky. When the Long Count was put into motion, it was started at 7.13.0.0.0, and 0 Yaxkin corresponded with Midwinter Day, as it did at 13.0.0.0.0 back in 3114 B.C.E. The available evidence indicates that the Mayas estimated that a 365-day year precessed through all the seasons twice in 7.13.0.0.0 or 1,101,600 days.

We can therefore derive a value for the Mayan estimate of the year by dividing 1,101,600 by 365, subtracting 2, and taking that number and dividing 1,101,600 by the result, which gives us an answer of 365.242036 days, which is slightly more accurate than the 365.2425 days of the Gregorian calendar.

(This apparent accuracy could, however, be a simple coincidence. The Mayas estimated that a 365-day year precessed through all the seasons twice in 7.13.0.0.0 days. These numbers are only accurate to 2-3 digits. Suppose the 7.13.0.0.0 days had corresponded to 2.001 cycles rather than 2 cycles of the 365-day year, would the Mayas have noticed?)

In ancient times, the Mayans had a tradition of a 360-day year. But by the 4th century B.C.E. they took a different approach than either Europeans or Asians. They maintained three different calendars at the same time. In one of them, they divided a 365-day year into eighteen 20-day months followed by a five-day period that was part of no month. The five-day period was considered to be unlucky.

Confused Confused Confused

Well there you go guys and gals...I think we are pretty safe from the end of the world...at this point in time anyway.

Cheers, Vince

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

ohhh.. my head hurts!! Sad

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

Only one or two drinks mate...not a carton. Laughing Laughing

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
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Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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English Mike
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:19 am    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

I could get struck on the head by a meteor between now & 2012 & my level of concern over either event is about the same - with the meteor being slightly more possible. Very Happy
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

And after two whiskeys Vince actually understands all that...Me? Sleep

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

The worlds been gonna end by one groups beliefs/translations of chicken guts, stars, planets, human sacrafice, drunken sign wearing bum in Philidelphia, tea leaves or other BS methods for 2000+ years! We are all still hear. so Its all crap! The Hale Bop comet was supposed to bring the end for us all to, All that died there was a bunch of coolaid drinkin nut jobs who thought there was a space ship in it to rescue them! wtf
I also seem to remember the world was gonna end on December 31st @ midnight in 1999/2000 too!
We didnt have Obama then though did we?..............We're doomed! Very Happy

Like the "Bible Code"/"Da'vince code", They only find stuff AFTER its happened! wtf And even then, its open to whom ever is translating.
kind of like the Bible and ALL the diferent churches.

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BigBlue
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

I can retire in 2016, so I have to believe the world will end between now and then just so I have to work right to the end.
Don
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

Hummmm. There must be something better on TV right now...

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
Hummmm. There must be something better on TV right now...

Haha Haha Haha Haha Haha Haha Haha

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
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Arron
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

Well...First off I think there is something to this but I do not believe the world will end!!! What I think will happen is just the end of this particular epoch of time. They are now saying that sun spot cycle is going to absolutely crazy through the next few years. Should be interesting to those of us that are radio buffs. The HAM bands and SW bands will be active. And there is also something to the Earth cycle as well. Earthquakes and such are happening alot more in the recent months. Also there is a belief that the world has ended four times. I am not sure if this is true or not but it is interesting that that a site down in South America is estimated to be possibly older than 17,000 years!!!! And the way the structures were built is just amazing!!! There are perfectly straight cut line that are uniform in depth that have been analyzed and folks who do this kind of work have no idea how these people could have done this kind of work when they were barely out of the "stone age" and the stone is supposed to be so hard that it takes diamond to really be effective at cutting it. It is called Puntapuncu or something like that. Just incredible!!!!

As far as when the Lamb shall come as the Lion: the time is known ONLY to the Father! I figure I am a believer and I have pretty much read the whole Book (New King James Version acceptingly) and know how it ends. So the bad things of this world HAVE to happen and in the end there is little that I can do to prevent it! (But I can be prepared to keep me and mine as safe as possible!)

And if I am a believer, then why would I want to prevent it????
THAT is an interesting question right there!!!!!

Not trying to start a big debate or argument so please don't take it that way folks.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

Hmmmm yes well I for one didnt by the whole millienium bug thing and I wont loose any sleep over the next big calander "happening" either. I figure to live life to the fullest and what will be will be.

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radar
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

Vince, you are a learned gentleman - where the hell did you get all that from, no wait I'll need another heiniken ....

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

Me...learned...nah....I'm as dumb as dog droppings (Barker Eggs) mate. Laughing

Heinekin...sounds like a plan to me mate, and a damn fine one at that. Very Happy Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

Damn...Nothing on TV either...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: 2012 End of the world? Reply with quote

I figure that if I live each day like it was my last only two things can happen:
I will be ready for death when it calls and I will leave a mark on the people I leave behind that will help make the earth I leave, better than it would have been if I hadn't have been here.
I have no wish to die but when I am called I am as ready to face the after-life as anyone can be.

How is that for philosophy in a non-denominational statement?
(The good Lord willing, I will be dead 3 days before Satan knows I am gone.)

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