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6.5s what about 'em?
Big Game Hunting topics that dont fit other categories
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Your Deer Caliber
.308
33%
 33%  [ 4 ]
.270
25%
 25%  [ 3 ]
.224
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
.280
8%
 8%  [ 1 ]
7mm
33%
 33%  [ 4 ]
.577 Tyrannosaur
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 12

Author Message
jbird22cal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:29 am    Post subject: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

Hey folks, I haven’t been around for a long time, I hope everything is doing well with you folks.

For some time now I’ve been looking for a rifle cartridge that will fit a small niche in my whitetail whacking exploits. I hunt in Central Wisconsin where on can go from heavy underbrush to open bean fields and the like.

My choices so far:

For up close and personal: .357 Magnum out of a S&W 27-2 with 8 3/8 bbl. (yes we get that close sometimes) I haven’t got a kill yet, the first time I stuck my front site in a pine tree, the second time was a miss do to the black sites on the pistol, there is always next year. Very Happy

For up to 150 yards in heavy brush and timber I used to use a marlin 30-30 throwing 150 gr. at about 2200 fps. I have now switch to 45/70 in a marlin guide gun using Hornady’s flex tips and am currently working on loads to speed that up a little, I couldn’t catch up to a deer on a drive the first season out as the bullet was just to slow. But at 50 feet it took a buck this season nicely, as well as a Doe last season at 50 yards. The reason for the swap was bullet deflection in the undergrowth was becoming a problem.

For longer ranges: 200-400 yards I have been using .300 Winchester Magnum off a Win. M70 rifle. This took its first deer at 250 yards this year fired from a prone position with a bipod.

The problem I have been running into is that while the short carbines of the marlin slide through the brush with ease the long barreled 300 hundred does not and vise versa the carbines have a large enough drop in velocity to handle the long flat shots. Both work well when Im staying put but as of the severe reduction in the heard brought by the State’s CWD herd control project I don’t stay put as much

So I am caught in a spot to as to where I need a different rifle for moving, preferably an auto loader. I have looked at the various types out there hoping to stay with the .308 family, though .270, .280, and others would do quick work as well, I have been hearing a lot about the 6.5s, I believe that it was the 6.5 swiss or maybe swede that got a lot of attention for a phenomenal deer cartridge. I know .308 caliber fairly well and like it, as a matter a fact I wont fire on a deer at any range that the terminal performance is under 900 fps / 900 ft lbs for an ethical kill besides paying attention to the State law clearly states that the bullet MUST expand. All of this is based on experience. I am leaning towards the barrel lengths common to the .308 winchester

Now along come the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 spc and the 6.5 Creedmoor. I have ignored the 6.8 spc and the 6.5 Grendel because I feel that they’re effective range rivales my carbines. But now there is the 6.5 creedmore, marketed as a high power competition cartridge by Hornady, at a quick glance may in turn be an effective deer slayer if the bullet selection was correct. The draw to me is that it appears to operate in the AR-10 and M1A platforms (don’t hold me to the M1A) The AR-10, though frowned upon by the hunting community as an evil black rifle, is a platform I understand and know how to lighten up for easy carry. I have 3 AR-15s and have learned how to deal with many shortcomings versus a Remington auto or BAR which I am either un-impressed or unfamiliar with.

But I don’t know anything about the 6.5, its preferred twists, bbl lengths, the effectiveness of the bullets, and the terminal ballistics which would be community viewed as humane against whitetail.

There are of course scores of different cartridges that I could us, but 6.5 has had everyone buzzing around these parts for a while, I am curious as to what your folks experiences are with the 6.5s. So before I contact Hornady to see what they have come up with, I figured I would talk to you folks as well.

Thanks


Very Happy

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

You know, DPMS makes an "AR-10" in .260 Rem...

www.dpmsinc.com/firear....aspx?id=8

I have two .260 bolt guns now and the DPMS is on my wish list. I used the Rem 700 I have to take two deer this past season.

By the way Jbird, did you use that same screen name on AOL?

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

Although I don't own a 6.5 I to did a little back ground checking on them !!!

I find both the 6.5 Lapua and the Creedmoor both fantastic cartridges but hesitate in considering them for medium to long range deer work. I came to the conclusion that the .260 Remington would work better given it's velocity advantage. The Creedmoor needs a 28" barrel to reach it's advertised 2900+ velocity. The .260 is easily capable of that in a 24" tube.
Keep in mind these cartridges were designed primarily as target rounds and no real emphases was put on their terminal ballistics ability but without a doubt would work great as a deer thumper under the right circumstances.

The 6.5's do like the longer barrels especially when getting into the bigger case capacities.
I do believe all 6.5's run a 1-9 twist due to their typically longer bullets.
If you were to compare the "Sectional Density" of the 6.5's to comparable bullet weights you'll find they have the highest factor. The SD of a bullet plays a role in how well it penetrates, something the 6.5's are well noted for.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

I hunt deer with a Tikka 270 Win bolt action. It has longer reach than the .308 I used to have. I when getting into brush and close quarters where I'm still hunting, I take my AR-15 (16" barrel) loaded with Barnes 62gr TSX and I can effectively reach out to 100 yards, maybe 150 in a perfect set-up. I've started building my second AR and have been wrestling with what caliber get and plan to use it for longer range deer hunting. For me, the AR-10 platform is too heavy, I like a lighter rifle (Tikka has spoiled me). At first I was keen on the 6.5 Grendel but you are lucky to get the heavier high BC bullets to launch at 2400 fps. Yes it will carry but not in a flat a trajectory as I want. It can't even launch the lighter bullets above 3000 fps. I've been studying the cartridges based off the WSSM but have not formed an opinion. The WSSM single-stack in the mags but with most states limiting you to 5 rounds, that isn't an issue. I also like the 6mm Turbo 40. It has more case capacity than the 6.5 Grendel, there are lots of 6mm bullets to consider, and its velocity is higher. Its pretty close to the .243 in performance and, with good shot placement, can take deer at a pretty long range. I'm also starting to look at the .30-call options - 300 Whisper, 7.62x39mm, etc. I'll be interested in other feedback you get from this thread.
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:11 am    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

Well jbird...there is a wealth of very good pertinent information contained in the posts above mate...but for my dollar, I think you would be hard pressed to look beyond the venerable old .243 in a quality bolt gun (plenty of them out there...pick your favourite).

Cheers, Vince

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

wtf Not that I have a dislike for the "Black Guns" I don't understand them as a deer rifle !!!


Personally.... of late I've been giving a lot of consideration towards the single shots. They are lightweight and can be set up to work great in the brush and fields.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
:wtf: Not that I have a dislike for the "Black Guns" I don't understand them as a deer rifle !!!

I was that way to ARs in general until last September when I started getting interested in them. Their modual design was innovative and simple to disassemble and reassemble. They can be light and handle well in fast reation situations. This can be of importance especially if you have your habit patterns established to use them without thought. That's why I think some hunters are interested in having them as deer rifles. If they already have one and want a bit more punch and range than a .223 then you only need to changeout the upper.

They also don't have to be black anymore. Remington sells them in camo. I've got one in dark earth and am building a second one in olive green.
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Azar
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

My deer rifle is a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. The caliber has been around nearly 120 years. I love it and don't think I'd trade it for any other deer rifle. The long skinny bullets give the 6.5mm a big advantage in sectional density and they usually have quite good ballistic coefficients and buck the wind well.

For the two most common 6.5mm guns in the U.S (the 6.5x55 and the .260 Remington) you usually have a twist somewhere in the 1:8" to 1:9" range. The original Swedish Mauser twist was 1:200mm (or 1.787").

You have a bullet selection between 85 grains to 160 grains with the 140 grains being the most popular and common. I don't know much about the Creedmoor or Grendel (other than they exist and are 6.5mms) but if you like and prefer the .308 family the .260 Remington is your boy. It's the .308 necked down to .264. They usually run a 1:9" twist which will typically get you good results up to the 140 grain bullets.
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

slimjim, Everything you said about AR's can also be said about a TC Contender line up !!!


Maybe it's the whole semi-auto thing in general with me..........
Once again I must state for the record I have nothing against those that use them or the gun itself.


Jbird, If you keep close tabs on the competitive world of shooting you'll see their trends picked up by the hunting community shortly thereafter !!!

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

The AR design is now matured for 50 years. A lot of people have shot it in the military and want to continue doing so in their civilian lifes. Plus you can customize it in so many different ways there is almost too many choices.
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

Here is a good article on the 6mm Turbo 40.

6mm Turbo 40, Precision Shooting Dec 2009

They say the cartridge and launch at 107 grain bullet at 2900 fps. This is similar to a .243. .243 WSSM doesn't seem to have much more performance. I like it!!!
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

You'll need a 28'' barrel to get those numbers !!! The others will do 3100+ in a 24' tube.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

You may be correct. I noticed that one of their target guns had a 28" barrel while the other had a 24". I'll call them tomorrow. Also, noticed that the 105 and 108 grain bullets were loaded longer than magazine length.
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

I should have noted that the 3100+ was with 100gr. bullets !!! (didn't have heavier data)
None the less the heavier bullets won't subtract a meaningful loss.

Hats off to whomever came up with the idea of creating a ballistic twin to the 6BR that works on the AR platform !!!
The 6BR has been doing some amazing things of late.

The bullets need to be seated out in order to fill the case with powder.
Typically the barrels of these types of cartridges are throated for a particular weight range.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 6.5s what about 'em? Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
You may be correct. I noticed that one of their target guns had a 28" barrel while the other had a 24".

I got a response from them today. They said they supported their customers with information. Since I wasn't a customer yet, they wouldn't answer my question if the velocity data they listed came from a 24" or 28" barrel. Now that is customer service for you, wow!
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