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Remington 581 bolt action
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

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Joe Boleo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:00 am    Post subject: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

I found a lovely Model 581 sitting on a used gun rack and took it home. A good cleaning revealed a perfect bore. I stained the stock to my liking, mounted a scope and went to the range yesterday. It is a real shooter but tended to misfire 40 percent of the time. I called my gunsmith and was able to drop off the bolt. I thought it just needed a good cleaning. Wrong. The firing pin was misaligned from the factory. I was tempted to contact Remington to have them correct their defect in materials and/or workmanship. The gunsmith said that could take months and he could fix the bolt this week. I will pick it up next week.

My gunsmith says he spends a lot of time fixing new guns that are not right. He says he does not see too many older guns with factory defects. Guess it is a sign of the times. Take care...
Joe
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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

Good choice. You are fortunate to have a gunsmith nearby. All the best...
Gil

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

Yes the 581's are nice 22's. great find!

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

Joe Boleo wrote:
The firing pin was misaligned from the factory.

??? How does this happen? How do you know that this is the problem?
does the indentation on the case shows it is off the rim?
Which part of it is misaligned?

Do you have image / photo of this?

I am just curious.



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fnuser
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

alot of .22's get their chambers ruined by dry firing the pin puts a dent under the rim and it doesn't get hit as hard as a supported one does.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

fnuser wrote:
alot of .22's get their chambers ruined by dry firing the pin puts a dent under the rim and it doesn't get hit as hard as a supported one does.

I agree with that, and that definitely do not fall under not the category of misalignment of firing pin.
Another thing that may happen is that if the firing pin is not harden correctly, the striking tip may flare and bounce off the case rim and fail to ignite.

I love everything mechanical, because they are much more easier and fun to decipher when they malfunction.
You can see where things goes and how they supposed to function.
Thus the reason for my interest in this.

As seen in the diagram I posted above, the whole bolt of the rifle is made up of very little parts.
There is only so much can go wrong.. thus is very interesting to know if there is a malfunction.
Whatever happen there may happen on other gun.

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Joe Boleo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

gelandangan ,

My gunsmith looked at two cases from the rifle, one fired and the other not indented except at the outer edge of the rim by the firing pin. Upon examining the bolt face, he determined that the firing pin was misaligned. Sorry that I do not have any pictures. However, my gunsmith is a master gunsmith and I trust his judgment. Take care...
Joe
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Pitt55
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

Joe I have owned one of these rifles from new and it has always done the same as yours. Other than that it is a tack driver. We no longer have a gunsmith in town so I guess I will live with the odd miss fire.
Don

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

This problem sounds horribly familiar Joe Have a look at the firing pin spring mate.

I have a Krico .22 RF that I purchased in 1969 and the bolt is basically similar to the pic that Gelan put up.

Like most young fellas who know nothing about rifles, I dry fired this rifle and eventually had to get the sears "cut and reset"...well that's what the gunsmith told me. Eventually, about 2 yrs ago, I got sick of the misfires, so I sent off to the manufacturer in Germany and they sent me out a new spring, which I fitted...never had a problem since.

Joe, I don't doubt that your Gunsmith is a highly qualified and competent 'smith, so I am not going to disagree with him...but like Gelan, I find it difficult to understand how a firing pin that simply slides in a channel can be "out of alignment".

Maybe the firing pin is bent or twisted and won't slide freely in its channel, thereby not allowing it to maintain sufficient energy to ignite the primer in the rim of the case. This is the only thing I can think of that would cause problems with a "soft strike" on the round.

Have a good look at the firing pin, and also the channel in which it slides, and see if there is any shiny wear points where it may be "grabbing". This friction would be sufficient to slow the firing pin's momentum down to the point where it would cause a soft strike. Food for thought mate.

Cheers, Vince

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

My first rifle was a Winchester 250 and over time I started having misfires. I think it is due to one of two things, or possibly a combination of the two: dry firing it when I was a kid, which peened the end of the firing pin OR dirt/debris in the firing pin slot in the bolt. I haven't broken the bolt down to check it but I did look to see that the firing pin is basically a flat piece of steel. Wonder how hard it would be to just make another one? Use the original as a template and cut/file another out of the same thickness steel. Of course I might just be able to buy a replacement.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

Punkin wrote:
Wonder how hard it would be to just make another one? Use the original as a template and cut/file another out of the same thickness steel.

Nothin' ventured, nothin' gained Punkin.

So long as you don't make any 'adjustments' or alterations to the original firing pin, you will always have it as a backup.

One of the things I would be definitely looking at mate would be the heat treatment of the 'pin' you manufacture. Not difficult...I have just done it with a knife I made. Heat the metal to cherry red/800 Deg F/till it is not magnetic....then quench it in oil (I used old car engine oil). Worked a treat.

Cheers, Vince

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Pitt55
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

Mine isn't a soft stike of the firing pin, actually when it misfires the strike mark is almost off the rim. It just barely touches the brass. I always figured the firing pin was just a sloppy fit. When the round does go off it's a perfect strike on the rim.
Don

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

Wouldn't be hard to do some measuring and checking of the tolerances Pitt.

I suppose the sides of a firing pin could wear with a lot of use, as I say...not difficult to measure it up.

If the tolerances have "gone south", then its time for a new firing pin. If this is not possible, or if the bolt channel has worn, then I think that a careful application of silver solder in the right place/s on the firing pin would take up the slack and allow you to re-align the pin to a more constant strike.

Cheers, Vince

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

Pumpkins, I have made replacement firing pins for my Ruger MkI, Browning Buckmark and a Savage pump action.

All of it is a simple piece of steel, I file them and case harden using Kasenit.
There is no trick in most rimfire firing pins..
you get the right thickness, the right temper and the right shape, and you got working firing pin.

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Joe Boleo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Remington 581 bolt action Reply with quote

I appreciate the advice and will chat with my gunsmith. I have several Model 581s and a 582 and this is the only one that gives unreliable ignition. Take care...
Joe
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