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45 or 50 cal
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

I have saved the bullets that didn't work. I fire them for the first couple times with a clean barrel to season it. I also use one of my cast-a-ways on ocassion to test against what I am currently shooting. I do keep them in a seperate box so as to not get them confused. Also, when someone wants to shoot my rifle, I put in one of "those" bullets.

I'm sure I'll find something that works. I still have a borrowed scope on my rifle, so I'll have to re-zero it in when it comes back. Nothing worth while is ever "easy".
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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Vint2... They list 3 different Barnes bullets. I'll bow to your experience and take your advice on which one to use. They listed Expander MZ, Spit-fire MZ, and Spit-fire TMZ. Ill have to get them via the internet. Is there a particular site that has better prices?

With my poor showing originally with the 250 grain bullets in my rifle, I probably will start on the heavy side and see how they work.

I did buy a package of Hornady 45-300 GR SST/ML bullets. This was about the only thing my local store carries that isn't 'easy load' and they were cheap. This guy has done me a great favor by letting me use a scope while mine is in repair, so I wanted to buy something from him. I see in some charts they are not that great, but it gives me something to use as a base for non-easy loading bullets.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

I am using the TMZ because of its boattail construction. Mine are 250 gr. If you go with the Barnes TMZ expect it to fly hi compared to any other bullet you have in that weight! If you try them let us know what happened!! Smile

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Now I'm really confused. I tried the Hornady 300 grain bullets with black sabots and the 209 powder. I shot a small load to 'dirty' the barrel. The first bullet loaded very hard. But it shot fine. I loaded another to see where it would go and was all I could do to get it loaded. I didn't clean between shots. It moved about 3 inches. I tried a 3rd bullet and it got stuck about 4 or 5 inches down. I had to take the breech plug out and throw away some expensive 209 powder to get the bullet out. I used a pre-soaked cleaning patch on both sides and 2 clean patches both sides. I put the plug back in. I still had some 250 Shock Wave bullets that always loaded too easy, so I put that bullet in the Hornady sabot. It loaded hard, but on this rifle those are the ones that go straight. It shot fine and was about 4 inches higher than the 300 Hornady's. I cleaned the same and loaded another 250 mis-match and it hit 1 inch from the previous one. So I thought that maybe it was just the clean barrel that made the difference. So I cleaned exactly the same and again the bullet got stuck in the same place. Getting it out broke two jags.

Then it started raining hard and I was out of jags. So I went home and measured the bullets. I assumed that since the Shock Waves loaded at all, they must be a thou or 2 smaller. THEY WEREN'T. They are exactly the same... .451

That's the confusing part. If they are both .451 why don't they both load? And it's one loads and the other doesn't at all. While I'm waiting for my Barnes bullets to get here, I'm going to try the Hornady bullets with the easy load Shock Wave yellow sabots. Talk about touchy!!! This is almost too much.

Even cleaning the 209 powder between shots isn't bad as there is no crud ring like with the 777. It cleaned very easily. And the clean barrel might give a slightly better shot group. If it ever quits raining and global warming ever kicks in, I'll try both combinations with a 'dirty' barrel versus clean. Of course I've got to buy some new jags. One was a 'super jag', which was expensive.



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vint2
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

It would seem to me that you have some sabots that are not right!!!!!
I don't know that there is any industry standard for sabots. The bullets are the same and the bore can't change so it doesn't leave anything else. I have some super tight combos that will just collect dust unless I can find some one to use them.
Hang in there, we iowegians have battled tougher things and beat 'em!!!
You just need to find the right combo and it can be a royal pain!!!! I put 300 rounds through one rifle before I found my load and it is a fantastic tack driver. It is a Knight 50 cal rifle.

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Oh, I'm not giving up. I was just surprised that the Shock Wave bullet (in my rifle) works better with a Hornady sabot in a 'clean' barrel', but when I used the same bullet in any combination with it's 'matched' sabot, it was horrible. I may try some of that 'butter' to see if a tight sabot / bullet will load and fly straight.

I like using a clean barrel because that is easy to reproduce. As long as the results are OK. I can't wait till the Barnes bullets arrive. These Hornady bullets were 1/3 of what the other bullets cost. Guess I didn't save anything bu using them.

If it takes a cleaning after every shot, then a coat of 'butter' to get perfect results, then that's what I'll do.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Another bullet that I used years back was theThompson Center Cheap Shot. It is a 230 grain hollow point that did a really good job on white tails for me in a CVA 50 cal. This one is all lead , cheap, and good to use as a practice load.

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

I not only got the 250 SW bullets with the Hornady sabots, plus the Harnady bullets with their own sabots too load. I used a pre-moistened swab with 'barrel butter' in between shots all the way down the barrel on both sides of the swab. They still loaded hard, and I got maybe a 2 to 3 inch group. But at least they loaded. Maybe my barrel is a thou or two undersized.

As far as the groups, I wasn't getting decent groups with my pistol either, so it may have been me. Now just waiting for Barnes bullets to arrive.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Take a lead plug and drive it through your barrel and put a micrometer on it to get a measurement and you will know. Also, you should not need to use any kind of a lube if you are using saboted bullets. It really is a waste of time and lube. If you are just shooting lead bullets with no sabot that is a totally different ballgame and you have to lube every bullet. If those tight bullets you are talking about are non saboted lead you might use one of them to mic your barrel.

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

What should the diameter be? I'll wait till I get my Barnes bullets and see hoe they load. Remember my Easy Glides went in too easy. I never had a problem till I tried Hornady bullet / sabots. I have some easy glide sabots... I'm going to try them with a Horady bullet just to see what they load like.

It really only loads hard for about as long as the bullet starter is... maybe 6 or 8 inches. Once I get the bullet started down the barrel with the rod, it goes smartly all the way to the seating against the powder. When I used the 777 I had to clean the crud ring especially good to get it to seat at all. That was my main reason to switch powders.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

OK, sounds pretty normal then! Sabots are not known for close tolerances and will vary some so loading can change from one to the next. I have had some that I thought would leave a bruise on my hand!!
Your bore in 50 cal, so should be .500 , but it is whatever it mics, of course. If you have some maxi hunter or maxi ball bullets from TC you can use one of them, or something else of that nature, to mic your barrel.

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

OK. That makes more sense on how to measure. My mind was somewhere else. Now can I take a lead bullet, put it just 6 inches down the barrel, then push it back out? Then do the same from the breech end? I want to see if the barrel is the same diameter on both ends. My reason being, that once my bullet / sabot is about 8 inches down the barrel, it gets a lot easier to move. If a bullet / sabot gets stuck, it's usually about in the first 3 inches of the barrel. So I could do one in the breech area, one about 6 inches ahead of that. The same from the other end. Then take one and push it all the way through to give me my minimum diameter. I'm surprised there isn't a go / no-go plug to check barrels.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

You can do however you want, but just make sure you run one all the way through!!

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Big sigh of relief. The 'easy slide' Shock Wave sabots worked just fine with the Hornady bullets, so I'm assuming the Hornady sabots were the problem all along. I loaded one bullet in a dry barrel with about 50 grains of 209 and shot it to 'season' the barrel. Then using the Hornady 300 GR bullet with the 'easy glide' sabots, I shot 3 more round without cleaning and they all loaded on the easy side. The first shot was low, which you would expect when going from a 250 grain bullet to a 300. I adjusted the scope up about half of what it should take and the bullet moved up that much. I adjusted up the rest of the way and I was satisfied that everything was OK when I was inside the 3 inch bulls eye. It started raining again so I quit. I don't want to use the easy load sabots in hunting. I'm still waiting for my Barnes bullets to arrive. Funny how just changing sabots can make the difference between NOT being able to load a bullet, to loading too easily where you know accuracy will suffer.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Yupper, and just about the time we think we got it all settled down something else can come along and muddy the waters!!! That is what keeps it interesting!!!

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