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45 or 50 cal
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

My Encore has it flush but it also has an extracter

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Yeah. Looking at it, if it was flush there would be no way to extract it. It's funny. After I gave it an extra special cleaning it started sticking almost immediately. I think my biggest problem is my scope. I shot once today and was 1 and 1/2 right and 1 low. I shot again and almost hit the old hole. The book for the scope says 1/4 inch per click at 100 yards. Actually, using math, it's .3 inches per click. Anyway, I gave it 6 left and 4 up clicks. I shot again and was almost 7 inches low but on the center. I shot again (this is all at 100 yards) and again almost hit the last bullet hole. I gave it about half the recommended correction up and it moved 10 inches up and 2 left. Just for kicks (I was about out of bullets) I correct half the recommended down and right. I actually moved UP slightly and 6 inches right. I dropped the rifle off at the gun shop to have the scope looked at. So I'll have to start over. $100 worth of bullets and powder down the drain.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

What did you use to clean it?

I'm not sure if its been mentioned yet (and I'm too lazy to look!) but I've found that saboted bullets shoot better in a dry bore, no lube or oil. The plastic is slick enough that any lube can cause it to skid in the rifling.

Sure sounds like a scope or maybe mount problem. A friend of mine put a cheap scope on his .50 Encore and it lasted almost long enough to get sighted in and recheck the zero. Then the crosshairs tilted about 30 degrees...

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vint2
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Any scoped weapon that I shoot I always make it a point to check my mounts and screws for loosening. The more recoil the more problem!!!!
Is your scope square with the bore?? As punkin says you should always use sabots DRY.

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

One possibility is the reticle may not be moving until you fire the gun, then the recoil causes it to move. I have had this happen a couple of times so I just got in the habit of tapping on the front and rear bells to make sure they move when I make my adjustments.

As for the sabots I personally haven't had much luck with them. the only time I tried them in my side locks they were still climbing at 100 yards. I don't think the twist stabilized them. The most accurate bullets I found were 365gr conical's, they do a beautiful job on deer.

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vint2
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

I use conicals only in my caplocks, and sabots only in my inlines. It requires a 1 in 28 twist to stabilize a sabot and caplocks are usually more like 1 in 38 or more.

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Donut Slayer
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

vint2 wrote:
I use conicals only in my caplocks, and sabots only in my inlines. It requires a 1 in 28 twist to stabilize a sabot and caplocks are usually more like 1 in 38 or more.
+1. My side lock wont shoot sabots worth a darn, but it loves buffalo bullets. My in-line (NEF Huntsman) will shoot 3 rds touching all day as long as they are sabots. My favorite load is 80 gr of 777 with a 44 cal 240gr bullet.

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vint2
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

My caplocks are still good for 150 yds, if I do my part!!

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Ive never tried conical's in my inline, the sabots shoot OK but I just don't like it as well as my Hawkins or Kentucky Long Rifle. If I could hunt with a scope in Minnesota I would probably use my inline more. Don't get me wrong My Kodiak will shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards every time as long as I do my part. I can shoot 1" groups with my Hawkins (with a good rest and provided I can hold still). I tried to bench the Hawkins like a rifle when I first got it.... not a good idea it resulted in huge bruise on my cheek and tears in my eyes.

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Vin2... nice to hear from you again.

I thought about pulling the scope AND mounts off completely and making sure everything was tight. But I thought I'd let a pro look at it. It was a used rifle. Never know what could have happened in the past.

It's a decent Nikon scope. The kind made for black powder with the little circles for longer yardages.

I do use the sabots on a dry barrel. 1 wet patch using both sides. Then 2 dry patches using both sides. The last dry patch isn't 100% clean, but damn close. Sometimes I "feel" a lot of crud with the wet patch near the firing area, but most of the time not. But the powder from the primers isn't black powder, so I use solvents on it.

I tried the 250 grain bullets first and could get no repeatability at all. When I went to 300's they were great. I've found many of my spent sabots and they appear to be tracking just fine in the grove. This is a 1 in 28 twist with a 28 inch barrel.

Repeatability has been fantastic. 75 yards is with-in an inch, and 100 yards is maybe an inch and a half. But I just can't adjust the scope to get the rounds in the middle. If I didn't mention it before, when I first shot the rifle, the scope was off 8 feet at 50 yards. I did re-center it myself, but you just can't adjust it. I thought about getting a laser that fits in the barrel to see how the adjustments on the scope were working. Anyone try one of those?
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vint2
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Thank you, good to be back!!!!!! Very Happy I think you might find that cross hair reticles might work better than the little circles as they are easier to steady on target. With my scopes I can pull I 1/4" groups at 200 yards. By the way, what powder are you using??

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

It has cross hairs for 100 yards. Then the little circles for each 25 yard increases. The firing range at home is 100 yards long. Where my mom lives it's 225. Can't wait to try it farther out. My friends couldn't understand why I wanted better than a 6 inch circle at 100 yards.

I use the 777 loose powder. I only got good results at 100 yards with 110 grains. 100 yards with 100 grains was 3 to 4 inches. 110 grains was 1 and a half inches. 75 yards is almost one hole on top of another. I'm having FUN ! I haven't shot a rifle in 35 years. I still have some catching up to do.

That 777 powder sure leaves a mess, but I rather enjoy cleaning it between shots. I'm in no hurry. I'll only get one shot hunting anyway. I do like it that just water cleans it up.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

If you think 777 is bad try some actual black powder!!

Adding to what Wiersy said ... When adjusting a scope I always drop the butt of the rifle a inch or so against something hard, but with enough padding to avoid scratches. At our range we have concrete benches and I'll put a piece of old carpet on it. I think it settles the crosshairs before I try to fire again.

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Actually, after I load the powder, but before I load the bullet - sabot, I tap the butt of the rifle briskly on the ground. That should do pretty much the same thing. But the problem isn't that the scope is sticking, it just goes way more than it should. And after it's shot, it stays where it was on the previous shot. So even though it moved 6 inches instead of the 2 that the adjustments should have produced, every shot from then on will stay in that area.

Example... Like 3 shots in a tight group, a couple inches off and a couple inches low. Tight pattern. Scope is adjusted according to the book. Next 3 shots will still be in a tight group, but the group's position on the target will be completely off from where the adjustments should have taken them. Now the "new" group is centered, but it may be 7 inches high... moving 9 inches instead of 2.

It's not unusual to try and move just an inch and it will move 6 inches, especially in the vertical mode. It moves in the correct direction, there is just no rhyme or reason to the adjustments. I'm shooting off a bench with two sand bag supports. I'm loading the same bullets and using the exact same cleaning procedures between each shot. The powder is out of the same container and the loads are exact. I don't think I have ever shot more than 6 shots before removing the breech plug and completely cleaning everything.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

One problem with 777, which is a fine powder that I also use, is that it builds a crud ring right about where you seat your saboted bullet. When shooting on the range you will have to take pains to knock it out to ensure accuracy. Otherwise it will cause inconsistent seating from shot to shot. I use 777 or Blackhorn 209. Blackhorn will not work unless you can use 209 shotgun primers.

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