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New brass........
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

Once again the same definition for 2 different words are being applied !!!

Accuracy has nothing to do with group size, it’s about placing a single shot where you want to.
The target might be another bullet hole on a target as in bench-rest shooting or it might be the lungs of a deer.
Either way the size of the target is irrelevant, it doesn’t matter how big or small it is. The important thing is to hit it where you want for an accurately placed shot.

The consistency deals with how many times you can hit your target with a series of shots. Once again it has nothing to do with the size of a group.

What needs to be done is define what the expectation is !!!
Then by testing as many rounds as you see fit, you can determine, if it meets the required expectation.
If it meets or exceeds the expectation then it can be considered accurate and consistent.

This applies for working up a load ( I need a ½ inch group ) or sighting in at the range ( to hit a 1 inch target ) at 100 yards.

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

I think your assessment of consistency is very accurate, Mr. 221!!!
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

Laughing

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

Laughing
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

Boy it is good to have an accurately consistent explanation of consistently accurate gun. Very Happy

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whittling
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

wtf Confused

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

Grumulkin is cheating. he is using Nosler brass which clearly states that it is weight sorted and prepped. The ones I have are already trimmed to length, chamfered and sized. So much for using "factory" brass the only thing left to do is turn the necks or if you're really bug holing uniform the primer pockets which to my discerning eye are probably done also. not the neck turning. I'm sorry but if you're going to make a point about how little case prep makes in your load you'll have to use some less prepped cases.

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

I'm going to make an assumption that you are trying to hit the nice orange dot. Now if both loads are identical with the exception that the brass was not trimmed or sized and one shot high then I must ask how you think this is accurate. I am with Chambered in the definition of accurate the bullet impacting your point of aim (where you wanted to hit). If you were trying to hit the orange dot your untrimmed brass hit high so I would not consider this accurate. Nice group but not where you intended. The 2nd group was placed where you intended to hit repeatedly, this is accurate and it is also consistent because they are tight. Seeing how the only difference in the loads is the trimming I believe if the cases were trimmed and sized to the same specs as the re sized brass the shot group would have been placed with the 2nd group. I will give it to you the first group is consistent. I stand corrected I guess you can have consistency with out accuracy.

As far as the number of shots I was asking you a simple question. It appears to me that you shoot the traditional three shots.

There is a definite difference in the definition of accurate and consistent. I still believe that you cannot be accurate if you are not consistent. Without hitting your point of aim (accurate) you will not hit you point of aim during a series of shots. (not consistent) Hitting your point of aim (accurate) will enable you to hit your point of aim repeatedly during a series of shots (consistent).

I am an M1A1 Tank Master Gunner and have consistently shot expert with military small arm for almost 20 years. If I can find the manual I will post the chapter that explains the critical relevance of consistent components that make up any round of ammunition. Weather it is a tank round or a small arms round.

No matter how anyone reloads I will not change my mind about making my brass as consistent as possible. I'm not here to ruffle any feather and have enjoyed this discussion. Smile

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

Thank you fnuser !

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The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.

Being "Over the Hill" is much better then being under it!
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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

fnuser wrote:
Grumulkin is cheating. he is using Nosler brass which clearly states that it is weight sorted and prepped.

Not so fast, my dear lad. These were Nosler seconds so definitely not weight sorted. Good brass yes; weight sorted no.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

Say...Does anyone remember what the OP (Stovepipe) asked? I do...

Stovepipe...Refer to page 2 second post down...

Very Happy Laughing Very Happy

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

Nice try

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

Were still talking about how to treatnew brass. We had to clear up a couple things.

To size or not to size that is the question.

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life."

US ARMY RETIRED

The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.

Being "Over the Hill" is much better then being under it!
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

Easy..."to size"...

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: New brass........ Reply with quote

It's most defiantly worth the half hour that it takes. Cool

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life."

US ARMY RETIRED

The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.

Being "Over the Hill" is much better then being under it!
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