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Lee Carbide .45
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:06 pm    Post subject: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

I just ordered a se of these the 3 die set. They say there is no need for a taper crimp die with there set. Has anybody had any issues or would the factory crimp die be worth getting. Any info on these dies would be appreciated Very Happy

Joe

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

It’s not that I disagree with what they say, it’s the way they say it!!!

Any brand die will take the flare out of the case while seating the bullet.
Redding’s do it a lot faster and put a very small amount of crimp on.
With a Dillon die you have to be better than 3/4 the way through the stroke before all the flare is turned in with no crimp what so ever.

The question is weather or not you want a crimp!!!
Most low pressure round (like the .45 ACP) does not need to be crimped.
A 40 S&W IMO should have at least a little crimp.
Also keep in mind semi-auto cartridges headspace on the case mouth so you don’t want a whole lot of crimp to begin with.

As for the factory crimp die, it’s more like a sizing die than a crimp die.
If you plan to run mixed cases or lead bullets I suggest getting one.
I use them on the ammo I run in competition. I had trouble with certain brands of brass until I started using it.

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

I haven't reloaded pistol cartridges for 10 years I use to load 357, I haven't loaded for a semi-auto before. I just don't want to end up with any feeding issues. Thanks Chambered Very Happy

Joe

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

Start out with some 230gr. jacketed or plated RN bullets and that should ease you into things !!!

I love the 200gr. SWC in my gun but SWC’s can be problematic if you don’t get the right one for your gun. Seating depth can be very critical as well.

Lead can have feed issues in some guns. The hardness factor plays a role in this. Any soft lead in my Kimber will hit the feed ramp and stop the slide almost every time leaving the nose disfigured.
Seating lead bullets in dies like Redding (see above post) can actually shave lead depositing it on the case mouth and not allow the gun to go into battery.

Here’s a tip about feed issues, sometimes it has nothing to do with the gun or load !!!
I can’t tell you how many times I seen guys blame everything under the sun and refuse to understand or believe it’s the way they’re holding the gun or handling the recoil. Semi-autos can be funny like that.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

Lee seating/crimping die is a tapper crimp die. I use them for my .45 ACP and they do a fine job. Just remember you really don't need to crimp .45 ACP. Just remove the bell. At the very edge of the case mouth you should see a diameter of .469" to .472" after removing the bell (crimping). If you are using lead or plated bullets verses jacketed, be careful not to over crimp.

The Lee FCD is not necessary for .45 ACP and if you (Chambered221) are using the Lee FCD for post sizing you need to go back and figure out what you are doing wrong in your reloading procedure. Very Happy About the only place I use Lee's FCD is for .30-30 and once in a while for .38 special for those very thin Remington cases.

Joe...Use the load manuals data for setting OAL. If you have a feed problem you can [safely] vary the length +/- .010. Lyman's 48th or 49th edition is the best for starters. To insure a proper fit in your chamber take the barrel out of your handgun and use the chamber for a gauge. If the round drops in with a resounding "clunk" and in turn falls out. Good fit. Bullet profile has the most to do with failure or not to chamber.

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

Chamber and Bushy said it all Joe.

The extra die is pretty much for resizing, and I have never needed it.

If you need any reloading formulas to get things started, give me a PM.

All of my loads are low recoil, and very accurate.


Just stay with the Lee three dies, and don't worry about the extra one for now.

Eric

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

Right from the LEE web site !!!

PISTOL

For Handgun Ammunition That Must Work!

Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die

A carbide sizer sizes the cartridge while it is being crimped so every round will positvely chamber freely with factory like dependability. The adjustig screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. It is impossible to buckle the case as with a conventional bullet seating die. Trim length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered. Revolver dies roll crimp with no limit as to the amount. A perfect taper crimp is applied to auto-loader rounds. The crimper cannot be misadjusted to make a case mouth too small to properly head-space. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition. It eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:19 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

Interesting Chambered....I for one was not aware that the LEE FCD for auto loaders was a taper crimp die. I was just about to wade in with the problems a mate used to have until he started applying a taper crimp to his .45 rounds back when I was shooting pistol.

Well, there ya go, ya learn something new every day. Very Happy Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:22 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

Notes I‘d like to add;
I did not get a FCD to post resize, didn’t even know it could until I got it, it’s just the way that die is made and works.
I run mixed brass a lot of the time, this die eliminates the need to have all brass cut and trimmed to the same length saving me a lot of time.
When you combine some brass with lead bullets you will often notice a bulge in the case where the bullet is.
The FCD (because of the carbide sizing ring in it) smoothes this area somewhat and promotes feeding into the chamber.
I use to take my barrel out of the gun and use it as a gauge and sort my ammo after I loaded it.
Like I said earlier, there was some brass I was not able to use until I got this die.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

I like the FCD as the final step for any revolver or auto rounds. My press is set up to only seat the bullets with the seating die (adjusted to not crimp) and the crimp is applied as the last step by the FCD. This is of particular help when using cast bullets since the die isn't trying to crimp the case as the bullet is being seated. This usually results in shaving lead. Bushmaster is right; use only enough crimp to hold the bullet from setting back in the case when it impacts your feed ramp. this can vary quite a bit depending on ramp angle, spring strength and the hardness of the bullets. Over crimping can allow the case to be driven too deep into the chamber which can cause pressure to skyrocket under some conditions.

As to type of crimps...revolvers normally use roll crimps while "rimless" straight-cased autos require taper crimping to ensure that the case is properly head spaced in the chamber.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

Chambered221...It has been proven to me by reloaders that have been reloading longer then me (23 yrs) and that specialize in .45 ACP that if you need the FCD for post resizing you are doing something wrong in your initial reloading procedures. As far as using the FCD as a crimp only die. It is an excellent choice. As I said I use two of them for my most difficult cartridges (.30-30 and .38 Spec Rem. cases). That includes lead, plated and jacketed bullets.

Most important is not to over crimp any of the cartridges that head space on the case mouth.

Both the .45 ACP Lee seating/crimping die and the FCD tapper crimp. The .45 ACP seating/crimping die properly set up will not shave lead. Remember...You are just removing the bell at the mouth of the case and nothing more. If you are worried about set back. Use Federal cases with the cannelure stamped in the case.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

Bushy, the only thing I’m doing wrong is trying to load several different brands of cases at the same time.
90 % of my 45 brass is pick-ups at the range, some long some short some thick and some are thin.
If I was to spend the time sorting, segregating and resetting dies I’ll admit I’d never bought the FCD to begin with. I wouldn’t need it. I don’t like Lee products to begin with, but it works!!!
In no way am trying to advocate the use of post re-sizing, It’s the way that die is made and works.
I am completely aware of how much too crimp and not to crimp auto’s, but when dealing with lead I’ve ran into situations that required a little more than just a turning in of the flare.
As far as using the FCD as a crimp only, that works fine if your loaded ammo is smaller than the sizing ring, that carbide insert is non-adjustable, it’s going to size anything bigger than it.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

I also use the FCD on my 9mm loads!!! The only reason I bought it was because my Redding dies didn’t come with a separate crimp die and the Lee was the cheapest.
As it turned out the Redding seating die does all the work I need it to do. (I learned this as I was setting up the FCD for the 9’s)
I went ahead and left it inline just in case I get a odd ball case.

With the 9 I have the luxury of having a steady supply of mostly once fired Winchester and Remington brass.
The resizing insert does absolutely nothing in this set-up.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

I do sort by head stamp. Even then, going from one set of 50 cases of one brand to 50 cases of another brand I haven't had a problem with cases "bulging because of the bullet seating procedure or crimping.

I have a friend that loads only lead and also competes. He absolutely hates the FCD...He loads mixed head stamps too...

I guess it's "whatever works for you" is the best suggestion here.

By The Way...All (100%) of my brass is once fired range pick-ups.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Lee Carbide .45 Reply with quote

wtf 50 at a time !!! Try 1,000 at a time !!! Very Happy

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