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PRIMER QUESTION
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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kentucky hareraiser
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

have another question;;; i have been reloading for aa while now Very Happy ;;;;;;and i have question again.. i'm reloading the 30-06 we've been discussing .i've use both varget (starting at 46,47.5 and up to 48.5) and imr4064(starting at 46.5 ,47.5 and up to 48.5) winchester cases and cci200 primers/w 165 gr.sst and nosler ballistic tips seated ar 3.340 and at 3.550 .with all that here's the question::: the primers ,after i shoot the shells are raised a little on the outside of where the firing pin strikes.they are'nt flat like a bad pressure buildup but just concerned because my 308 win. and 243 dont do that to the primers.. i've seen others on here puttin' like 50 to 56 grains of diffrent powders in 30-06 but i'm a little shaky with the primer deal. i think it's called cratering (maybe) .anyway on pictures of primers having pressure to high ,out of the 5 pictures it was the second one. y'all may have the pics too i hope . i'll check back later to see what everyone comes up with .. thank's all
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

It is very possible that you have set the case shoulder back a bit when you resized them. Backed out primers are caused when the case grips the chamber walls during firing and never sets back to reseat the primer. Because Winchester and Remington cases tend to be softer (Remington more so) then other manufacturers they don't slip back as readily.

.30-06 head spaces on the case shoulder. you will need to check to make sure you haven't set the die too deep. One way to adjust for this is to measure the highth of the protruding primer and divide in half. Set the die off the case holder by that much with a case in the die and holder. All you will need is a feeler gauge for this. Load the cases again and if the primers set back again. Repeat the procedure.

Had this problem with my .30-30. I had set the die .030" above the case holder.

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wncchester
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

"..here's the question::: the primers ...are raised a little on the outside of where the firing pin strikes."

You have some slight cratering. It can be a sign of over pressure or a weak firing pin but the most common cause is a loosely fitted firing pin in its hole through the bolt face. Try a slightly reduced load and see if it goes away. If it doesn't you likely have the poor fit. Try another brand of primer to see if a harder/thicker cap will fix it.

I'm not sure but it seems the CCI primers currently have the stoutest cups for their primers.
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fnuser
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

1. Does it look like a ring in a puddle after a stone goes in?
2. are the outside corners of the primers sharp not round?
3. What is the dimension of the case just ahead of the web before and after firing?
It sounds like wncc got you pegged.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

Kentucky...Can you furnish (post) a photo of the case?

And does it look something like this?



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kentucky hareraiser
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

. i hope you can make these out. may not be a serious problem that will blow me all to hell ,but, better safe than sorry

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

Thats CCI primers right?
Yes I can see the flow around the firing pin.
Not too bad but it is noticeable.

CCI have a tad soft primer cups.
Try Winchester primer

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

Those primers wouldn't concern me at all. There is still a very nice curve on the outside radius of the primer which indicates pressure is very reasonable.

The hole in the bolt the firing pin goes through in some guns is a little bigger than it needs to be and will cause cratering such as pictured above.
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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

KH...don't loose any sleep over askin' questions mate...that is how you learn. Better to learn from the experience of another than from your own mistakes. Remember mate...the only stupid question is the one you do not ask.

I'm with both Gelan and Grumps on this one...there is no flattening of the primer whatsoever. The very slight cratering around the indentation is fairly common with almost any firearm. To my uncalibrated eye, there does not appear to be any significant pressure signs to worry about.

Bushy does have a point though....and a nice "sharp" one at that. I can't see if KH's primers are "proud", soooo....if they are KH...try what Bushy has suggested. If they are not "proud", then I wouldn't loose any sleep over it... just keep an eye on things as you normally would.

Cheers, Vince

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

Yup Kentucky...Not to worry. It's as Grumulkin said. Just an over sized firing pin hole in the bolt face. Smile

Gelandangan...Just the opposit. CCI has the hardest cup, then Winchester, then Remington, then Federal at the softest,

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kentucky hareraiser
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

so now am i able to raise the powder charge to 50 gr. safely with out the primer or casing blowin' up on me? manuals show (biggest part of them anyway ) arround 52 being max. some higher but averaged that. what ya think

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

In all reloading situations where you plan to increase the powder charge or change any of the components you go slow. I would increase your powder charges by a half a grain until you reach your goal of whatever you are after. Accuracy is, what I hope, you are trying to acheive...Watching all along your journey for over pressure signs...

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kentucky hareraiser
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

yep,bushmaster,my boo-boo ----50 gr. is the max in the manuals not 52. i'll stay at 48.5 of varget . thank's man y'all cool as hell .know a lot about guns and stuff. than's ole bub

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

Thank you, but a lot of the credit goes to the guys and gals on here.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: PRIMER QUESTION Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:

Gelandangan...Just the opposit. CCI has the hardest cup, then Winchester, then Remington, then Federal at the softest,

You may be right Bushy, but, somehow, I get the crater like hareraisers with CCI and no crater with Winchester, on my rifle loads.

On Pistol loads, yeah, your list agrees with mine, CCI is hardest winchester then remington then federal is softest.

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