HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: eleyxring
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12411

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 126
BOT: 5
Total: 131
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Photo Albums
04: Photo Albums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Photo Albums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Your Account
17: Forums
18: Photo Albums
19: Photo Albums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Home
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Home
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Photo Albums
41: Forums
42: Photo Albums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: News
46: Photo Albums
47: Photo Albums
48: Photo Albums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Photo Albums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Photo Albums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Photo Albums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Photo Albums
74: Photo Albums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Photo Albums
78: Forums
79: Photo Albums
80: Forums
81: Photo Albums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Your Account
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Photo Albums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Photo Albums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Photo Albums
104: Forums
105: Your Account
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Home
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Photo Albums
123: Photo Albums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Your Account
03: Forums
04: Photo Albums
05: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 300
 Pictures: 2352
  · Views: 271061
  · Votes: 1288
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

It happened - AGAIN!!
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 5675
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

Well, as some of you know I got a pellet stuck in my 300 whisper barrel last year..

here
and
here
and then
here

Ok, I solved the problem (it turns out that the scope is damaged somehow) and the gun goes back to shoot sub MOA around Easter this year (last month).
So, yesterday, it is the turn of the Whisper to see sunshine again..

I have definitely check and re check my reloads (to the extend of weighing the components before AND after loading for each cartridge)so that there is NO chance of high/low powder or no powder on the cartridge.
You know.. the once bitten etc etc sayings..

So I loads up the cartridges and looks forward to soaking up some sunshine after a week of rain..

Came Sunday, the day is well, not too cold, nor it is warm I think about 20 degree (celcius) or so in the range.

So I shoot my first round.. It feels ok, but through my scope, I cannot see the hole in the target!! Confused
Checking the barrel, yup.. it is clear.. Confused
Hmm.. maybe it is me..
So I load the next round.. squeeze.. and blooompfh! wtf

I GOT ANOTHER ROUND STUCK IN MY BARREL!!!!!!!!! Mad

So what happened???

The cartridges brass, primer, projectile and powder were weighted BEFORE loading and the total is IDENTICAL with the weight of the assembly after they were put together..

The IDENTICAL load were used before and was a very consistent load.

A few variables I can think of, but they seem to be very trivial..
- I am on the bottom of my can of AR2205 powder.. maybe the last few loads left there.
- I am using new box of of primer CCI450.. but I bought them in 1000s batches
- I am using new box of Woodleigh projectile but they are usually very consistent.
- It was raining when I load the cartridges, but I am indoor away from the rain.
- the temperature of the day I last shoot the whisper successfully were about 25 - 26 degree with low humidity and the range is dry, where as yesterday, the range is wet from previous weeks rain.
- I lap my barrel after the last incident, but I shot the barrel after I lap and gets good result.



?????????????????????????

Confused What did I miss???

Is AR-2205 temperature sensitive?
Could the batch of CCI-450 got swapped with CCI-400?
Could the projectile happened to be a tad fatter?
Could the first shot fouled the barrel enough to stop the second projectile?

AAARRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

Try using a powder that will fill the case more with less velocity? Or giving up and using a black powder substitute? Confused

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 12953
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:13 am    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

Gelan....you have me absolutely knackered mate...as best I can see, you have done everything possible to take questionable reloading out of the equation.

Only thing I can think of mate is that AR2205 is not a suitable powder for your application. It is a great magnum powder for .357 Mag and some smaller calibres such as .22 Hornet. To my knowledge it is not temperature sensitive, well not as we could measure anyway. When you extracted the case, was there any unburned powder inside it...was there any unburned powder in the barrel? Maybe the projectile has cleared the case using the power of the primer, but the powder has not fully burned and "flumphed" into the barrel and not burned properly.

I would say that you could test this theory by loading a projectile with a primer only and firing it, but then that would give you another boolit in the barrel...not good.

I'm thinking that possibly your load is such a small quantity in a large case that the burn of the powder happens in such a way that it is not able to develop full pressure. I would definitely be looking at doing what 'Mitri suggests mate...a powder with a higher density that will fill the case more for a similar pressure level and velocity.

Black powder substitute.....hmmmmm...I suppose that the potential is there, but I don't know if it is a path I would follow.

Cheers, Vince

EDIT: Sitting here scratching my...well anyway...I got to thinkin'...look at each component or item in the equation:

Gelan - Careful handloader...did his part correctly it seems

RIFLE - appears nothing wrong with that except for a dodgy scope. Possibily check headspace.

ROUND:

Case - any cracks, splits failure points?

Primer - Check your primers for Model # and age and storage conditions

Powder
- Prime suspect in my mind.
Powder type may be questionable, check age of powder and viability, check quantity of powder in recipe, is it sufficient in volume for reliable ignition and burn. Maybe confirm load with ADI.

Boolit - Top quality (Woodleigh don't supply bad boolits), however, measure a sample of boolits to confirm sizing

Weather - I don't believe this to be an issue.

Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)


Last edited by Vince on Mon May 25, 2009 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
roklok
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 607
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

Sorry to hear that, Gelan. Have you encountered anyone else out there on the vast web with similar issues with the Whisper? Is it possible that it is a risk you run with this cartridge, with tough, heavy bullets at low velocities? At least you have seen and experienced this problem before and know how to deal with it.
Back to top
View user's profile
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 4369
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

What powder charge are you using? Any idea if AR2205 is sold in the US under a different name?

I did find this list showing SIMILAR, not EXACT replacement, powders. It does NOT mean that the powders are interchangeable!

www.adi-limited.com/ha...alents.asp

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anyone else, and there ain't no one better than me!" Ma Kettle

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 12953
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

Mike...AR2205 is an aussie powder made by Thales (formerly ADI). I don't believe that it is marketed in the US, but it has a pretty good following here in Australia.

AR2205 is a fairly fast powder and best suited to the smaller calibres like .22 Hornet and also doubles as a pretty good powder for Magnum pistol loads. I have used it in .357 Mag loads and it is great, however I am not really convinced that it is the best powder for the .300 Whisper.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
fnuser
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 911
Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

To my mind the fact that you're getting a pop means the primers are doing their job. Don't have much else for you though, except a harebrained theory that doesn't link up any of the above. Is it possible that lapping your bore has reduced pressure enough that you need to up your charge for desired results.

_________________
N.R.A. Endowment Member
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 5675
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

I think I found the problem!!!

The crimp!!!
I have look at the fired case.. it has very shallow crimp marks on it, whereas the other loads have deep crimp marks.
I use Lee FCD to crimp and it usually squeeze the cases deep enough to make canelure in plain jacketed bullets.

Well, I will try again and again and again.. and again......

Ohh goodie.. plenty of shooting ahead Very Happy

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 4369
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

Thanks Vince! I found this load info for the .300 Whisper using 220 grain bullets but note that all of the bullets listed are "softer" than the FMJ Woodleigh that Gelan is using.

www.reloadersnest.com/...Weight=220

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anyone else, and there ain't no one better than me!" Ma Kettle

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 5675
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

Another thing about those loads published is that most of the guns have shortish barrel, 18 - 20 inches where I use a 24 inch.
Which means that the projectile were subjected to a bit more (up to 25%) friction time than the others.

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3437
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

I like your crimp theory!!!

In comparison to a .357 case capacity, heavy bullets, slow burning pistol powder, (I believe it to be similar to W296 and H110) cold weather, got the makings of a squib load.

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
kentucky hareraiser
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Oct 27, 2006
Posts: 325
Location: kentucky

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

sure there was powder in that round,,, if there was.nt , the primer itself would maybe ,push the bullet halfway or so in the barrel and not have enough get up and go to send it out the other end.. in a loading tray of brass ,when i thought all was powdered up i double checked and sure enough 2 was empty. when concentration was broke by betterhalf or someone stoppin' by to say hey... just a thought

_________________
I would rather be judged by twelve ..................than be packed by six
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3437
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

gelandangan wrote:
The cartridges brass, primer, projectile and powder were weighted BEFORE loading and the total is IDENTICAL with the weight of the assembly after they were put together..

KH I think you missed something !!!

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
sniper
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 18, 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

Gelan:

Stuff like that is what makes handloading so much FUN! Very Happy

It sounds to me as if it could be 1) Contaminated powder, or 2) Primers.

How long have you had the powder and primers, and under what conditions have they been stored? Is your powder measure and scale accurate?

I second the suggestion of a bulkier powder.

Do look at your reloading procedures to be sure that they are consistent. Double check every step of your reloading, to be sure you haven't forgotten anything. (like primers...don't ask how I know this! Embarassed )

Peer deeply into the cartridge cases to be sure they are properly powdered. Shocked

You sure have had your share of troubles with your 300 Whisper, haven't you?

Good luck finding a solution. I just hate it when stuff like that happens!
Back to top
View user's profile
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 5675
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: It happened - AGAIN!! Reply with quote

snips..

yes I agree!
it also make wildcats fun

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.