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Bought my first and last box of Federal?
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
chambered221 wrote:
If you still feel it’s a issue E-mail that picture with your thoughts to Federal and let us know their response.

Already did, as I said I am probably over reacting but even my cheap 13$ a box Remington UMC has the ability to keep the ammunition loaded more consistency on the depth of the bullet. Seemed odd due to the fact this hunting ammunition is 35$ a box.

Dimitri

Gidday 'Mitri.

Have you heard anything back on your concerns with the Federal ammo mate?

Just being curious and a bit of a "sticky beak".

Cheers, Vince

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Federal couldn't get the link to my photobucket account open so I had to attach the picture in a email. So far I have not gotten a response back after they have seen the picture.

Dimitri

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Dimitri,

Coming late to this party but a couple of things to note: You are measuring overall lenght with a set of calipers. The key to ultimate accuracy is not how long the bullet is or where the machine rolled the cannelure. It is the distance from the ogive to the lands of the rifling. You have to know your chamber dimension from the boltface to the lands and from the ogive to the lands. This difference is the critical dimension. If you take a comparator like Hornady/Stoney point lock and load tool and measure from the base of the case to the ogive I will bet you $10 US that the spread is much less than the .025". I would also bet that it wil be about .040 less than your chamber length.

The depth of the exposed lead and the relative postion of the cannelure have nothing to do with the bullet jump that will affect the rifling. These are hard to control in the high speed manufacturing line and realy not as important to the bullet quality other than for appearance.

Even in high quality match hollow points the drawing of the tips is a difficult dimension to control. I have measure a lot (600) of Hornady 75 grain match bullets for my AR and found up to .012" variation in overall bullet length, but when you measure the same bullets using the comparator from the base of the bullet to the ogive the variation was .001....

As Bushy says - the machinist is settng the bullet seater on the factory press to a tolerance, but that is the ogive dimension, not the ones you are looking at.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Dimitri,
looking at your picture, I guess it could be that someone dropped the box (or ammo case) quite heavily
and some of the projectile got shifted out like in kinetic bullet puller.
If the loads are made to OCW (which most factory loads are) then providing they are within standard OAL they would still shoots well.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Gelan,

I thought about that but the box looked when I first got it as too "nice" to have suffered a drop unless it was right on one of the flat sides of the boxes. Confused

Dimitri

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Well I would have no idea. I haven't purchased factory ammunition in over 23 years except .22 LR and 12 gauge. But that said. I see no real problem with those that you pictured.

Say...Can I have the brass after you discar---fire those Federals? Very Happy

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Bushy,

If you want to file the State Department Paperwork sure. Laughing

Well that or you can invite me hunting next fall, cause I'm allowed to bring 200 rounds with me for the hunt, and I wouldn't need to bring the brass back Wink

Dimitri

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Paperwork? Just to mail empty brass? You sure?

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Call the ATF and ask them what they need. Wink

Dimitri

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Gelan,

I thought about that but the box looked when I first got it as too "nice" to have suffered a drop unless it was right on one of the flat sides of the boxes. Confused

Dimitri

Mitri,
the drop could be done when your particular box is within a large case (of x many boxes) in which the whole case of x thousand cartridges will show similar signs.
That way the external of the box will show little sign of damage.
Mind you the force required to dislodge the projectile by that amount may be equivalent to a 4 foot drop (eg. from the back of a truck).
I never try it but it does look reasonable guess..

If you are worried about it, check that the max OAL is within limit of the cartridge you shoot..
Then pull the tallest and shortest cartridge and weigh the powder.
If they are the same, then you aint got anything to worry about.

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The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
Paperwork? Just to mail empty brass? You sure?

Bushy,
the 300 whisper cases I use are made by one Keith Davis on USA.
He could not mail them to me without USA paperwork, nor could I import them without one from my side.
It took a friend of mine in Texas to fill in the form and then mail them to me.

Not a big deal but it does waste a lot of time for those petty bureaucrats to look like they are doing their jobs!


Hehe.. I cant resist... This is my 1234th post!!! Very Happy

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

This seems to pop up now and then with Federal Premium ammo and appears more usual with certain calibers. When they were first a new item, I ran across a guy on a Missouri deer hunt that had his 7mm Remington Magnum sighted in for the premium ammo with no problems. He picked up another box of the same weight and etc. for hunting and found out on opening day that not a single one of them would chamber in his rifle. When we compared the new ones with his single remaining round from the old box, the newer ones all appeared to have shoulders slightly farther forward and the body looked thicker. Unfortunately, I don't take calipers on a hunt Smile so we couldn't determine for sure. Probably a relatively rare occurrence, but it does happen.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

gelandangan wrote:
He could not mail them to me without USA paperwork, nor could I import them without one from my side.

Here in Canada I can import up to 5,000 rounds of ammunition before needing a import permit for personal use. Very Happy

However every country in the world pretty much wants export permits to take out ammunition. Sad

Dimitri

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Per Federal on my box of ammunition:

Quote::
Sorry for the delay as we were waiting for SAAMi specs.

The SAAMI OAL for the load .308 cartridges is 2.490min-2.800max.

The attach photos show that they meet industry standard spec. The accuracy and velocity are not affected at all with the slight seating depth.

So apparently they had to contact SAAMI for their specifications. They didn't have the specifications on file. Shocked

Dimitri

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:51 am    Post subject: Re: Bought my first and last box of Federal? Reply with quote

Or maybe they were waiting for home office to send them over?????

From a manufacturing standpoint this isn’t surprising.
The tolerance they use in house is specific to that load. Their quality control people would have signed off on those specs knowing it fell into SAAMI specs.

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