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Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

Here is an interesting article about primers comparison

www.jamescalhoon.com/p...essure.php

I usually use CCI 450 on my Whisper loads and Winchester LR for my 308s

I use Federal small on my target 357 loads (including Full Loads for service)

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

Good read gelandangan, except I disagree with him in the practicalities of using a mike to determine case pressures over using lab equipment. Just for starters. Case to case even with the same manufacture can vary and may not have the same elasticity. And I have both calipers and 0-1" mikes that will measure to .0001, but I don't even plan to try his idea due to practicalities besides that noted above. Two of which is that I value my firearms and body parts...

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

Okay so the heading of this post is really "Does anyone have a really good .308 Win load for Sierra 168 S.M.K.'s?'....Right?

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

In a way yes it is. Because I decided on a load that is not similar to the GMM round.

In a way not it is not. As I was considering just loading what the GMM is without any load changing or tuning.

Dimitri

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

Bushy, I to agree there is no substitute for lab equipment.

But……… This method has been used and accepted as a viable method for working up loads.
To do it properly you must take 4 measurements then average them after you load them.
After firing 4 more measurements are averaged and compared to your first average.
It’s a very time consuming procedure and everything must be marked and kept in order.

Tests done in conjunction with lab equipment have proved its viability but also notes certain circumstances can create invalid results. (elasticity could be one)
The system is based on averages. (doing more is better) These averages are supposed to nullify any single case that might give false or misleading info.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

Adding to what chamber is saying.

This method is used to measure pressure tolerance of that particular batch of cases (assuming they are of the same batch of production)
After all, the pressure readings published by SAAMI or case manufacturer are made to the average case metallurgy (um how do you spell that?),
being able to "see" if your load are safely handled by your case would be a plus for handloaders.
The gun may be able to handle the pressure, but the case may rupture, or stretch, or deform etc., first.
You would normally load to a maximum that just below the permanent deforming pressure to get max life out of your cases.
Of course you would ensure that all the dangerous pressures are safely enclosed within the gun.

But, my point in posting the link is for the info about primer on the same page.
To what I could find in the net, this is the only page that list thickness of primer cups
we were comparing the virtues of different primers a few posts ago did we not?

And, um.. we are hijacking Dimitri's topic Very Happy

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:53 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

We may just be hi-jacking Big D's thread, but some good information for him and us.

In all actuality Big D needs to load a few [100] rounds of regular stuff before he ventures out in the world of experimenting. Just my [not so] humble opinion...

Good morning Big D....

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

I was just clarifing because there are some exact duplicates out there for the fed. 168 loads. But mine is straight out of the Sierra book and its labeled their accuracy load for the 168's you've probably seen it several times I feel like I preach it. since you've already obtained your components I wont bore you with it but just some advice. Start with a known and vary the assembly i.e. loaded length , powder charge, etc. ONE AT A TIME. this sounds monotonous but it's very rewarding and this way you can fire form all your brass. and that is good. Also norma doesn't like max charges it's a little softer in the head and will get sticky faster then lapua or win. meaning you will feel like the bolt is getting hard to lift at lower pressures then the others due to the alloy. Enjoy.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

gelandangan wrote:
And, um.. we are hijacking Dimitri's topic Very Happy

Highjack away its not like I have not done the same before. Laughing

Bushmaster wrote:
In all actuality Big D needs to load a few [100] rounds of regular stuff before he ventures out in the world of experimenting. Just my [not so] humble opinion...

Good morning Big D....

Good morning to you too Bushy. By the way what do you mean regular stuff? The first loads are all within safe limits for rifles. Do you mean trying different things like seating depth and pushing the ammunition has hot as I can safely get it to go?

If so I doubt I'll ever run the ammunition I reload "hot", why you may ask? Because I like to keep it simple and safe. Its like driving a car/SUV the fastest I've ever went was about 55 miles a hour (85km/h). Laughing

Dimitri

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Its like driving a car/SUV the fastest I've ever went was about 55 miles a hour (85km/h). Laughing

Dimitri

Mr D. if you are driving at that speed, you may reach your destination with traffic jam on your back Very Happy

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

Posted speed limit on non-400 series highways is only 80km/h so if they don't like it they can pass me. Laughing

Dimitri

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

I can't drive 55 scared (From the been there did it category)

www.mtv.com/videos/sam...e-55.jhtml

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

It's a free country...I'll drive just as fast as I can afford the speeding tickets...Which just happens to be the speed limit... Very Happy

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:17 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone here attempted successfully to duplicate Federal? Reply with quote

'Mitri wrote:
ts like driving a car/SUV the fastest I've ever went was about 55 miles a hour (85km/h). Laughing Dimitri

Speed limits out here vary 'Mitri...50kph in built up areas, 60kph in some areas, 70kph, 80kph, 90kph on most freeways and 100kph (62mph) - 110kph (69mph)on the open road. I stick religiously to the speed limit...can't afford the fines.

As a young fella I was a little more adventurous. I would regularly exceed 160kph (100mph) and when out with one mate in particular, well the sky was the limit. Fastest we were ever clocked by radar was 269kph (168mph)...the mate was behind the wheel (the Police didn't even bother chasing us), and the fastest I have ever taken a car was 248kph (155mph). Had to get off the gas because we threw a fan belt. The car in question was a Dodge Challenger RT/SE fitted with a 440 wedge bored and stroked out to 511 cu in. Boy, did that thing scream.

I am a lot more sensible these days, as I say...stick to the speed limit...there are too many cars on the road these days to be a "stunt driver".

Today, I have even slowed down my reloads...for the same reason I slowed down the car...no sense in burning things out for a few seconds of thrill.

I've thought about the request of duplicating Federal, but I think that rather than try to duplicate the actual load, duplicating the performance is much easier and every bit as effective. There are plenty of different bullets out there that will duplicate the terminal performance of that loaded in the Federal, and there are powders that will provide the necessary oomph to duplicate the velocity. Just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers, Vince

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