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Digital scales or balance beam
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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RePete
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

I started out with a 10-05, then graduated to a 10-10 which I still use, but last year I got a 1500 combo for the .338LM.

Measuring 90+ grains of powder on the 10-10 is a PITA, but the 10-10 with the Culver modified Lyman 55 is good.

I have loaded .308 with the 1500 but, for some reason, I prefer the Lyman 55 and the 10-10.

You can't go wrong with the RCBS 1500 Combo. Supported by a great company and faster that the Lyman 1200.

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TheBigJonson
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

Handloader wrote:
The drawbacks to the electronic scale.....the time it takes to use them.
...dropping the charge to the pan, trickling as needed and taking the pan to the scale is faster, IME, than any electronic combination measure/scale/trickler......The scale may read 60.1, then 60.2, back to 60.1, then 60.0.

Handloader, your observations make sense to me...my method for bench loads is similar but even more simple. On the point of the thread, I have an Ohaus 10.10-10 (had to go look) beam and an old Dillon D-Terminator. I use the Ohaus rarely and find the Dillon spot on - checked with reference weights periodically.

I meter my bench loads with a Redding bench-grade measure...I used to check every 10 loads...now I just check a few loads at the beginning of a session. I find this measure throws loads of almost all powder types within .1 gr. without fail. Your fluctuation being within that on your electronic scale is within the Redding capability and well within benchrest specs, so IMO it can be ignored. Having said that, a breeze coming from a crack somewhere can cause that much drift.

So, I use the powder measure directly into the primed case and get very consistent results at the range. I've tested this system against my Dillon 550B press (with bench grade dies in place) and the results are different (to benchrest standards) - a little more general spread...I suspect it's just the difference in the powder measure itself. I may be going against the grain Embarassed here...but I believe concentricity and other specs are more important to accuracy than how powder is measured and loaded . BJ

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

Bushy,
I thought we was friends......
I won't get rid of any of my balance beams either!
I haven't found anything to replace them yet.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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dust54
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

Just a quick comment about digital scales. The line voltage used will flucuate causing some of the flucutation seen on digital scales. I use digital scales and still have my balance beam (when the electricity goes out I can still reload). I always calibrate the digital scales after allowing 15-20 minute warm up time. Even if I turn the scales off and right back on I will re-calibrate. If you have an electronic scale that is fluctuating check the line that the scales is plugged into for other equipment on the line. Light bulbs, florecent lighting and such will cause the scales to fluctuate.

I wish I good enough to blame missed shots on other things, but.....

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

PaulS...We are friends...Just not that good of friends to give you my 5-0-5 RCBS...I often wonder why some people have so much trouble with beem scales. Mine has been in service for over 22 years. About the only thing I do to it for matenance is dust it off on ocassion...

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

I've physically busted two beam scales. the first one was red and you lined up the hash marks and moved a ball bearing to the desired charge weight I can't remember the brand but it didn't cost much and was real accurate because the max charge was pretty low I think it was 111 grains if you moved all the indicators to their max positions therefore the difference was amplified due to the larger ratio of a smaller error ( or at least that was my theory) I laid a 300 win mag featherweight on my bench and the beam flew across the room and let the ball bearing out. I guess they're not really featherweights! My friend talked me into buying a rcbs scale which worked really well until the little foot you screw up and down busted some how. Luckily some one was selling stuff and I bought a box of sierra 6.5's and an old Pacific scale that's blue and goes up and down all day unless you put a little mineral oil or some fluid in a reservoir that acts as a damper to this paddle shaped thingamabob. I bought it years ago for $20 and kept it in reserve but dug it out when I got tired of trying to find the right thickness of board to zero my rcbs. Now I love it. It's my favorite so far. The accuracy of my ammunition stays under 1" at 100 so I'm pretty sure as long as you use whatever you've got correctly it'll probably work. I think that red one was called a "safety" scale. I don't know why they called it that, those ball bearing can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. Namely mine. Embarassed Very Happy
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

Bushy - you are so right. I love all three of mine and I am always up for another.
fnuser - I'll take that broken RCBS off your hands and the Pacific too! I know I can build a new foot for both of them and make them usable again. Maybe I can even convert that paddle to a manetic dampener type.

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Paul
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So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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fnuser
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

Just p.m. me where to mail it I'm always in need of space but you can't have that pacific it's just weird enough for me to really like it, and it ain't broke yet.

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

I looked all over that Pacific instruction manual and couldn't find a copyright so I posted it in odds and ends misc as 2 pictures one's a jpg and one's a png wichever is easiest for you to use or look at. But you still can't have the Pacific. The oil reservoir is directly under the pivot. The only picture that really shows it is the 1st page that has the mailing address on it. BUT YOU STILL CAN'T HAVE IT.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

My...Persistent aren't we.... Very Happy

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fnuser
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

I was trying to be obvious so that he didn't get his hopes up, I hate a tease.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

I sent you a PM fnuser....
Let me know if I need to reimburse you.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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DougB
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Joined: Apr 23, 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Cadott, WI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

dust54 wrote:
Just a quick comment about digital scales. The line voltage used will fluctuate causing some of the fluctuation seen on digital scales. I use digital scales and still have my balance beam (when the electricity goes out I can still reload). I always calibrate the digital scales after allowing 15-20 minute warm up time. Even if I turn the scales off and right back on I will re-calibrate. If you have an electronic scale that is fluctuating check the line that the scales is plugged into for other equipment on the line. Light bulbs, florescent lighting and such will cause the scales to fluctuate.

I like the idea that I don't have to worry about any of the above with my RCBS 5-0-5. My scale also works at the range without AC or battery power. I have heard that plugging your electronic scale into a power conditioner/surge protector may help.

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Last edited by DougB on Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

Howdy Welcome to the HuntingNut DougB sit and stay awhile

Joe

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wallawallaron
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

I use Lee powder scoops. Have since 1972 when a friend gave them to me. He bought a scale. Factories use volume not weight. More accurate. Time to read Lee's book. Volume 2 . First one lasted 40 years. Just a way to get people to buy things they don't need. I think you guys are over thinking this loading thing. 270 4064 to the top of the neck add 130 grain on sale bullet and boom. Model shoots less than 1" all day with any type of brass except military 06.
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