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45 or 50 cal
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

I just missed deer season last year. We got some hunting property with just a couple days to set up stands. I haven't hunted for 40 years and want to try again. Looking at articles and data, the 45 cal looks best for me. I will be hunting open farmland with trees on the edges. 50 yards to 150 yards.

I do plan on spending time at the range to get used to the rifle and figure out the best load for accuracy. I want to try and use just iron sights, but that will depend on how much I have lost over the years. I may use a scope to figure loads out, then take if off then practice - practice - practice.

I'm no "sportsman". Partly I'm tired of dodging deer going and coming from work, 35 miles each way. The rest of my family hunts and the meat will be used on the table, just not by me.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Welcome aboard!! Being a fellow Iowegian I know what you mean about deer on the road! I won't try to change your mind if you are set on a 45, but I think you will actually be much happier with a 50 cal and the results you will get from it at the longer ranges. I have been ml hunting for 40 years and would only go to a 52 if I could not get a 50. So, anyway pull up a stump, have a brew and we can swap yarns, or whatever!!!

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vint2
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Welcome aboard!! Being a fellow Iowegian I know what you mean about deer on the road! I won't try to change your mind if you are set on a 45, but I think you will actually be much happier with a 50 cal and the results you will get from it at the longer ranges. I have been ml hunting for 40 years and would only go to a 52 if I could not get a 50. So, anyway pull up a stump, have a brew and we can swap yarns, or whatever!!!

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. The prices are sure lower on the 50's and there are even some used ones around. I was just going on ballistic info and some posts on different message boards. Do you think a certain barrel length is better for the 75 to 125 range, which is what most shots would be? Do you go for the highest load (150 grains) or what gives you the best accuracy. Remeber I'm looking at not using a scope. Thanks again.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:59 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

The bp weapons that we had years ago had lousy iron sights, in my estimation, so I used a peep sight for many years. While I really liked my peep, my eyes have changed enough that I now use a scope. If you can't get along with the iron sights I would suggest you try a peep. They are reasonable priced and work very well. I would stay with a 24-26 inch barrel and generally use a 100 grain load. I use 100 gr of Blackhorn 209 and Thompson Center 250-275 gr sabot. I load for accuracy and my Knight Shadow is extremely accomodating with this load. I have also used Parker Ballistic Extreme bullets in these weights with excellent results. My Shadow is a Knight Rifles inline. A modern bp weapon may be able to handle 150 gr of powder, but if you use a short 20-22 inch barrel and 150 gr of powder you will just be wasting powder as it will not have time to get burned before discharge from the barrel. Well, I tell my key board to shut its self off!! If you have any questions I will be glad to try and help, and I imagine that some of the other folks in here will be glad to chime in!!!

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Maybe "iron sights" was the wrong term. We either used that term or scope. But in the "day", that was about it. What I was looking at was the fiber optic sights that use the orange dot and the two green dashes on either side. Although I did very well with the peep sights on an M-16. It just looks like target acquisition would be faster and more precise with the optic sights. I guess it always depends on the situation. If the deer is close the optic sights would be fine, at the outer ranges the scope would be better. I'm just trying to not spend money on things that look good but don't really help. Last year most deer in our area were taken at 50 to 75 yards. But if I get a decent long shot, I really don't want to just wound an animal either.

What have you seen or read about the 209 primer pushing the bullet forward before the powder starts to burn? I see someone has a "special" 209 primer for BP, but I really like the small caliber primers they are working on. I'll probably only buy a rifle that they have the small caliber primer breech plugs available for.

If Obama gets his way, BP may be the only firearm HE will allow. Who knows, maybe HE will make us hunt with bow and arrows, and our mandatory community service will be handing out deer condoms and birth control pills to keep the deer population in check?
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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

We each have to work out what works for us, but I use Blackhorn 209 powder and 209 primers and get outstanding accuracy, so I seriously doubt any problems from bullets moving before they are supposed to. Could happen in some situations though. The man who c ame up with this is a Canadian who is doing well for himself, but I have used the system and was not happy with the occasional flier I still had. Iron sights or open sights are all the same to me. I find the optics distracting and am beyond open type sights anyway because of my old eyes. I had to give up the peep because it did not work for me in poor light and I went entirely to scopes.
Gotta go do some chortes, but any questions let me know.

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Looking at your picture, you don't look that much older, if any, than I am. Maybe I'll figure out the sight thing too on the range.

And you must have read the same article that I did on the other primers. Just looking for the best accuracy. I'll probably just use the rifle twice a year. Shot some rounds to get used to it in the fall, then the actual hunt. So if something is a lot more work, it won't be that big of a deal.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Yes, I have read a bunch on primers, etc, but I have also used alot of this stuff and, like I said it is mostly what each person prefers. If you go to www.hp.muzzloading.com ( I think that is right!!!) you can get a lot of information about muzzle loading in general. My range partner will not use anything but blackpowder and lead bullets!!! I prefer the advantages of subs and sabots!!!
I am 70 soon to make 71, if the Lord so wills it.
Where abouts are you at in Iowa?

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Last edited by vint2 on Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:52 am; edited 2 times in total
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Remember that a .50 cal gives you the options of a full caliber bullet or a saboted .44-45 caliber bullet. We've shot some 1.5" groups at 100 yards with our Encores using PowerBelt bullets, Hodgdon 777 powder and 209 primers.

I still shoot iron sights on paper or steel but went to optical sights for hunting. I use a low powered scope on my Encore to help ensure a good shot on game. For me, given my vision, that is the ethical thing to do.

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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Excellent points,Mike! Try that url again, if it did not work. I had left out a point and it should be ok now. Embarassed

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

I'm in LeMars but I sill fly out of Sioux City. I just did my driver's license. I turn 62 this weekend.

My only experience with blackpowder was when my son was in a shooting program 16 years ago. I enjoyed it. Before I was in the service I hunted a lot. Sort of lost interest after that. Like I said, I think we have way too many deer and my family loves the meat, just not me. I would be happy to trade deer meat for chicken :-)

If there is any place I can actually watch people shoot, and see what they do and what they use, it would be a big help. I'm not really interested in the replica guns, but even watching them would be a help.

Whatever I buy, I plan on starting with loose powder and see if there is a specific load that works best for accuracy. If it's close to 100 grains, then I would probably use the pellets. But if it's like 120 to 130 and there is a big difference in accuracy, I'd stay with the loose. But it will be something like Pyrodex or Triple 7 in any case. I've also read that the Winchester triple 7 primers work better than the plain ones. I've seen the 209's that are incased in plastic, but doubt if I would be hunting if the weather was that bad.
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

Hey Iowafarmboy. Grab a stump and pull up a beer. or is that grab a beer and pull up a stump? Well anyway, welcome to this fine site.

I also chose the .45 cal. Ballisticaly they are better. I have a CVA Mag bolt that I got from Bass Pro for $150. It has a 24" barrel with a 1:28 twist. It shoots really accurate. I use Cabelas Dead Center Sabots 195gr. with 100gr. of American Pioneer Powder. I don't think you'll be disappointed with it.

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iowafarmboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

When they list the spec's on a bullet, and it's a 45. Does that mean it was shot from a 45 cal rifle, or could it have been from a 50 with a sabot? Now I'm confused... again :-)

And if I were to use a 45 sabot, what would the bullet actually be?

I originally thought I would try the bullets that are full size, but have the plastic around the bottom.
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vint2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: 45 or 50 cal Reply with quote

If it says 45 that is the calibre. It will say 50 cal sabot so you know it is not a 50 cal bullet. Also if I say I am using a sabot you can be pretty sure I am using an inline. Loose powder will give you hotter loads than pellets as they burn better. The 45 is NOT the game getter that the 50 is range wise or energy wise.

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