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Digital scales or balance beam
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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GUTS
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Joined: Nov 01, 2007
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Location: South Dakota

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

I use the DPS1200 and I think it does a great job. When I'm loading for accuracy I use the 505 as a checking scale. Almost every time I double check what the DPS spit into the tray, I wonder why I waste time doing it, the scale is usually dead on. The only time it changes is when I'm walking around in the loading room while it's dispensing or if I don't let it do it's warm up cycle. The only thing I don't like about the scale is that I can't use ball powder because it works it's way in between the plastic bushings and the feed tube and locks up the scale. When I use ball powder I use a dipper and finish it off on the good old RCBS 505.
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A17Shooter
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Joined: Jan 26, 2005
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Location: California Foothills (Gold Country)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

My Lyman LE-1000 turned to junk. It was never perfectly stable and required a lot of zeroing and calibrating. Sad As it got worse over the years, finally I pulled the plug and replaced it with the Chargemaster 1500. Like it for small quantity loading. But, I can beat it for volume stuff, like loading 17 AH with ball powder.

Still have my Ohaus 10-10. It still works well and is accurate and reliable with or without electric power availability. After years of working with technology, I have developed absolute faith in the ability of electronic units to fail at the most inopportune time.



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Handloader
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

The drawbacks to the electronic scale are several, including the need for a power source (battery or outlet), the need to use the tare function frequently, and the time it takes to use them. And, they tend to be a tad temperamental. I have been testing two of the newest ones and find the 5-0-5 balance beam is more accurate, reliable and faster. I like the electronics for weight segregation of brass; in that regard it is quicker.

If you have an accurate powder measure, dropping the charge to the pan, trickling as needed and taking the pan to the scale is faster, IME, than any electronic combination measure/scale/trickler. Friends that have the electronic setup usually will go from the pan to cartridge to the press and seat a bullet while the pan refills. In timing both methods, the manual system is still faster.

It may be the old analog vs digital issue. I prefer analog on watches, speedometers and, in this case, scales. Watching a digital scale that can't decide the exact weight leads me to believe they were invented by a schizophrenic lab rat. The scale may read 60.1, then 60.2, back to 60.1, then 60.0. I wonder if electronic scales ever commit suicide?

Electronics have improved and some of the newer models are faster than their predecessors, but, IMO can't beat the speed of the manual system. Most of the ones we sell are to those that enjoy technological stuff and enjoy crossword puzzles, automatic transmissions, text messaging, carry laptops with them into Starbucks and enjoy complexities in life. Getting from A to B can be done many different ways and we get to choose. Ain't it great!?
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

I heard a lot of different things about electronic scales as far as them being finicky, touchy, inaccurate, slow, ect, ect.

So I wondered, maybe you guys are buying the wrong brands!!!

Ohaus is the brand used by the engineers and quality departments where my wife works. So I did a little checking on them.
Ohaus is a worldwide company and their products are some of the best available. I found the AV53 to be about the size we would use.
Model- AV53
Cost 617.25
Capacity 51.0g
Reads to 0.001g
Accuracy is +- 0.002g
Stabilization time 2.5 seconds
Standard deviation 0.001g

800 grains = 51.8 grams
0.1 grain = 0.006 grams

I know this is a very expensive scale, but I wonder what a comparison test would show.
Its way more accurate, reads to a higher degree, and for that much money I would assume it don’t jump around trying to settle on a weight.

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~George Washington
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

Handloader is old. It's not his fault...I like my RCBS powder pro. It's faster then my 5-0-5, it's accurate as my 5-0-5 and just as repeatable as my RCBS 5-0-5. And I don't mind weighing and trickling every powder charge I drop. Because that's how I do it anyway...Oh...And I only have to calibrate it once a day. Just before I start reloading. About the only thing my 5-0-5 can do faster is warm up...

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

High quality digital scales are finicky.

Any slight jar on the reloading table will bother them.

I made a small wood platform with felt pads on the bottom for my Lyman Digital to sit on, and I have no problems.

To each his own, but like I said, my Ohaus beam scale sits, while my Lyman Digital sees the powder.

Bushy, I think that you are correct about Handloader. Very Happy Very Happy

Eric

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

Eric, you say you have a Ohaus beam, do you have any experience with their electronics ?

Ya all gotta quit picking on Handloader or I’ll have to consider reviving the ole farts post !!! Very Happy

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Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

No Chamber, my Dad's old Ohaus is the only contact that I have had with that company.

Also remember, Bushy is the guy who picked on Handloader, I just added a little to what Bushy already said. Very Happy Very Happy

Eric Evil Devil Evil Devil

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

I have a PACT digital scale and an RCBS beam scale. After comparing results/weights for a while I switched the digital exclusively. The digital was just as accurate and a lot faster. That digital number changing back an forth a tenth of grain isn't any different than that beam oscillating up and down and is likely due to an external disturbance, i.e. vibration or air flow.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

Elyboy...I like that feature of the little jiggle that makes the RCBS Powder Pro change by a grain or two. In fact if I think I'm close I'll bump the bench and see if it settles at a lesser or greater weight or stays the same.

Pumpkinslinger...You probably already know this, but the early RCBS electronic scales, like my Powder Pro, were made by Pact.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

By the way, my scale and digital powder dispenser are kept on a filing cabinet beside my loading bench so that the bumping of the press operation doesn't affect them.

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wncchester
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

"Ohaus is a worldwide company and their products are some of the best available. I found the AV53 to be about the size we would use.

Cost 617.25... I know this is a very expensive scale, but I wonder what a comparison test would show. Its way more accurate, reads to a higher degree,..."

Thsi whole topic is repeated a couple times a year, none of us are changing our minds! Perhaps that's as it should be, the guys who build them finnicky, unreliable digitals need to feed their familys too! Smile

As I've stated before, Ohaus is perhaps the best scale maker going. They make many of the currently popular reloader scales. They also make good dititals - but NOT for a price many of us would pay!

MOST of the less expensive reloader branded scales are not suffiently reliabable, repeatable, or any faster than a good beam. At least not to this old reloader and electronic tech's opinion and experience. Of course, some guys will luck onto one that's good. Someone probably got a decent Yogo too, I guess, but it's not the norm. Glad some are happy with their's but I would NEVER buy one myself.

We pays our money and takes our choice. And live with the results.
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

Old? Me? Just because I remember when Japan signed on the Missouri to end WWII? Just because I still have two unopened cans of HiVel #2 and one opened one? Just because I use an RCBS A2 press? Well, age may have an advantage in appreciating the virtues of simplicity and, yes, I am a simple person.

That said, what does it signify when the lead tips on bullets turn white?

Digital, indeed! Accuracy? You are jesting, right? Is that why most benchrest shooters use digital -- oh, wait! I just remembered (its that age thing again) none of them use digital, at least the ones that win.

Now, excuse me, I need to synch the carbs on my Triumph Bonneville and replace a few vacuum tubes in my radio. Adios.
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

I still haven't gotten any of those old useless beam scales in my mail......
I promise that I will use them, after calibrating them of course.
send them to:
Rev. Paul Stephens
6522 51 Ave So
Seattle, WA. 98118

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Bushmaster
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Joined: Jun 12, 2005
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Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales or balance beam Reply with quote

And Paul, even though I use my RCBS Powder Pro over my RCBS 5-0-5. You still won't see my 5-0-5 in your mail box...

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
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