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mossberg 817
Small Game hunting related discussion
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firehawk209
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

i bought a mossberg 817 .17 hmr and was wondering if anyone knows of any aftermarket barrels i can get for it. i am going to have to have it drilled and taped just to have a bipod put on it as it doesnt come with a swivel stud and i have always noticed that barrel clamped bipods mess with accuracy in the lighter caliber guns. i need some info on how to make this gun very accurate.
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popgun
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

Hi Firehawk,
Here is our first stock answer. Clean it and shoot it to see if it needs any accuracy work. My friends that have the 17's only have one complaint and that is cleaning the tiny little bores. Accuracy in the different rifles are usually great right out of the box.
You can install a sling swivel mount yourself. Just some careful drilling, a touch of epoxy, and you are ready for the tripod. You can order the swivel stud from MidwayUSA www.midwayusa.com/ or Midsouth shooters supply at www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/
Then you can get a small tube of 5 minute epoxy from Walleyworld.
After you give your rifle a try check back with us and let us know how it is shooting and if it is not spot on then we can come up with some more stock answers.

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firehawk209
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

what type of drill bit should i use to bore the hole and should i bore it all the way through my stock? i have been told the only way to keep a bipod in a synthetic stock is to bore it through and recess a nut on the inside under my barrel since my rifle didnt come with a swivel stud.
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firehawk209
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

what type of drill bit should i use to bore the hole and should i bore it all the way through my stock? i have been told the only way to keep a bipod in a synthetic stock is to bore it through and recess a nut on the inside under my barrel since my rifle didnt come with a swivel stud.
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

Any twist drill will work to make the hole - make it no larger than the screw/bolt you will be using. Counter bore the inside of the stock for the nut but be sure that the bolt doesn't go through too far.

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firehawk209
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

got a good round for this little 17hmr. i am shooting the federal v-shock 17 grain balistic tip. shoots right at 1/4 inch groups at 50 yards. got a barrel clamp bipod that works great and didnt make a bit of difference in the accuracy(as far as throwing it off). out of 50 shells i shot 10 before i got it dialed in to shoot those kind of groups. Now i have another question for you guys since you helped me out greatly with the last one. have any of you guys shot or do you own a H&R ultra varmiter chambered in .223. How accurate are they and what grain do you bullet would you recommend? another question is will this .223 by H&R shoot M855 SS109 ammunition without harming the action, barrel, or rifling?
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

The "civilian" chambers for .223 are different than the "military" chambers for 5.56 in that the civilian chamber has a shorter throat. This can lead to high pressures when firing military ammo.

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firehawk209
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

i talked to a local gun dealer and a local gunsmith and they both told me with the weapon i talked about above i should be able to shoot the M855 SS109 round with no problem because it only hold a barrell pressure of 55,000 psi. it also shoot slower than all the other .223 ammo that i bought. They said if the gun would have been equipped with a 1:12 twist barrell i would have not been able to shoot it but because it has a 1:9 twist it should be able to shoot about all ammo i have access too. if you have an opinion that differs please post it so i can read it.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

My understanding is that military ammo is loaded to 60,000 CUP, compared to 50,000 CUP for .223 ammo. In other words, I wouldn't shoot military ammo in your rifle without a lot of further checking.

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firehawk209
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

hey pumpkin slinger. i found this article with a little help. check it out and let me know what you think. www.ak-47.net/ammo/ss109.txt
it says in the article you have to have a twist rate of 1:9 or faster to be able to shoot this round. not trying to be hard to get along with but i have tried to research all NATO rounds because they are actually easier to get then the normal remington, winchester,federal....... you get the idea. I have no clue how to reload or i would make my own formula to fit my rifle because i am looking to shoot anywhere from 100yds. on out to 500yds. and i know this round is can do it because i shoot this round in the army at 600 meters which translates to 546 yds and it was very acurate. The thing that changes it all is the throat distance. the gun smith told me because it is a break action and not a bolt i should be fine and that it would absolutely not damage my weapon.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

600 meters = 656 yards...

You do need the faster twist to shoot the heavier .224 bullets, no doubt. There are civilian loads for target and hunting that use 60+ grain bullets if that’s what you want to use. I’m working up some 60-64 grain loads for my Rem 700 and DPMS AR now. Both have a 1-in-9” twist.

SAAMI specifically says that you shouldn’t use military 5.56 NATO in a .223, check SAAMI.org. My concern here is your safety. I’ve had gunshops/gunsmiths tell me some pretty silly things as “facts”, such as “never use FMJs because they’ll damage the rifling”…

What are you intending to shoot? Any military ammo would be a poor choice for any kind of hunting. Especially the M855/SS109 type bullets designed to pierce armor. For varmints you want rapid expansion for two reasons: to insure a clean kill and to avoid ricochets. For larger game you want controlled expansion, and there are some .224 bullets designed for this too.

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firehawk209
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

at the present time i am going to use this weapon strictly as a 500 yard or less target gun only. by the way my figures were wrong on the ranges above. 600 meters is 656.168 yards and some change. i would like to be able to reload my own ammo and be able to fine tune a V-MAX bullet or something like that so i might be able to reach out to further ranges by just switching scopes with a longer zero. i am going to zero this scope i have now dead on at 100 yards and do my ballistic research and practice to learn how many clicks i need to move the vertical to get it to 500 yards dead on. i have had training to learn how to control my breathing and heart rate so that isnt going to be the issue. i went to the local gun show today and bought 200 rounds of PMC 55 grain FMJBT. the other ammo i have been able to get is the Remington UMC MC. i am not to sure about the remington but i have had nothing but good luck with the PMC rounds in everything i own.
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

Firehawk, Welcome to Hunting Nut !!!

It sounds to me that you need to understand some basics about ballistics.

For starters, SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute) sets all the guidelines that the firearms and ammo manufactures adhere to. Not the local gunsmith or dealer. Like Pumpkin said they say some really stupid things at times. Yes it is possible that the M855/SS109 ammo may produce lower pressure and might be safe in your gun. But unless you have pressure testing equipment to test with, stick with the recommendations set by SAAMI.
A fact about pressure. Just because the velocity of a particular bullet is slower than another does not mean it has lower pressure.

As for the twist rate. The bullet length determines the rate of twist. Twist is a function of bullet stability in flight and nothing more. Shooting the wrong twist for a bullet does not change the pressure in the chamber or make a round safe or unsafe.

About a guns limit in general. You hot rod anything to its limits and/or beyond on a regular basis and something is going to give sooner or later.
Fact is your H&R has been designed and tested to .223 specs. Not the NATO specs !!!
It does not matter that it’s a break open, bolt or pump for that matter.

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firehawk209
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

thanks brothers. i am just going to shoot PMC 55 grain bullets until i can either get the barrell upgrade or until i find a bullet that shoots flawlessly. I can find a bullet that i know will shoot almost that way but when you shoot alot and you live in the south and work in the furniture industry you shoot what you can afford and what will hold a good pattern. The other bullet i was talking about was the Hornady Custom .223 A-Max 40 grain. When and if i decide to use this gun to hunt the little deer here in North Carolina I will jump up to the Hornady A-Max 75 grain. If you guys have any other thoughts please jump in and give me your opinion. I know this round will kill deer because i have seen plenty of them shot in the head and in the shoulder with plenty of damage and not to mention they went less than 50 yards.
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firehawk209
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: mossberg 817 Reply with quote

HEY GUYS I NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE HELP. I SHOT THAT .223 THIS WEEKEND AND SHOT A WHOLE BOX OF SHELLS. GREAT SHOOTING GUN BUT MY BIGGEST PROBLEM IS WITH SHOOTING THE GUN OFF THE BIPOD I GOT FOR IT. IT IS LIKE A HARRIS BIPOD. THE BIPOD HAS A FEATURE THAT ALLOWS 10 DEGREES OF MOVEMENT AND I DONT LIKE IT. IS THERE SOMETHING I CAN DO TO TAKE THE PLAY OUT OF THE BIPOD? PLUS CAN ANY OF YOU GUYS SUGGEST ANOTHER MASS MAKER LIKE PMC THAT WOULD MAKE A GOOD FACTORY LOAD. I REALLY DIDNT LIKE THE WAY THE PMC'S SHOT. THEY DONT HAVE EXACTLY THE TIGHTEST GROUPS IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. ALL SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME. KEEP IN MIND I AM FROM THE SOUTH AND IN THE FURNITURE INDUSTRY AND OUR ECONOMY REALLLLLLYYYYY SUCKS.
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