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Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?)
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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OntheLasGallinas
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Vince,

The reason for that question has to do with foot-pounds of energy and trajectory caused by weight difference.

Then, the penetration difference has to do with the foot print of the impact (the larger the diameter, the greater the resistance).......correct?

Cary

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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Gidday Cary.

The energy and trajectory would be pretty much identical for each slug/projectile. The "group" was around 6" - 7" at 50m, but bear in mind I was firing single shot and had to load each one in my O/U before firing.

Each slug starts out identical as far as shape and size is concerned...they all came from the same LEE mould. The footprint alters on impact. Like any other projectile, the softer it is, the easier and, usually, the quicker and more dramatic is the upset or alteration in shape, or as we call it, expansion.

In the case of the Linotype alloy, it is hard enough to retain its shape and frontal dimension without distorting or upsetting, hence the deeper penetration.

The Bullet Alloy is marginally softer and whilst the actual front of the slug did not expand or upset, the back section, the skirt, actually did, although only marginally. The rear of the slug is distorted as though it were spinning when it impacted. I am surmising that this small amount of upset was sufficient to absorb enough energy to reduce the actual penetration into the hardwood tree.

The Lead, being very soft, started to expand and flatten out on impact. The actual nose diameter started out at 8mm...after impact it expanded to 10mm. But it is the remainder of the slug/projectile that has expanded dramatically due to everything behind the nose continuing to move forward whilst the nose had stopped. The diameter of the skirt at the rear of the slug is 16mm. On impact this has actually reduced to 15mm and started to fold inwards into itself...implode if you like. The length of the slug prior to impact is 15mm...after impact, 8mm...this is the most dramatic change.

The lead slug barely penetrated into the hard wood...it only pushed through the outer dry layer and inner wet soft layer of the bark.

So, there we go...I hope my ramblings make sense mate, as I am not an academic or Scientist. Laughing Laughing

Cheers, Vince

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:16 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Vince, looks like a good explanation to me. Seems I read someplace ("Understanding Firearm Ballistics" by Rinker?) that most of the energy a bullet has is expended in deforming the bullet, niot the target. I'll look that up as soon as I have a chance.

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OntheLasGallinas
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Vince,

You did great. I couldn't have explained it any better.

Cary

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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Well thankee kind Sir. Coming from someone of your education that is indeed quite a compliment.

Cheers, Vince

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Yes, it is in Rinker's book. Pages 341-342.

"The energy is used in creating heat, deforming both the bullet and the object hit, creating noise, breaking bone, penetration, deforming, etc. Only a small amount is used in knocking or moving the object struck."

"A lot of energy is used in bullet expansion. If the bullet had little energy to start with, the energy used for expansion won't leave enough for suitable penetration."

Edited to correct spelling... Embarassed

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Last edited by Pumpkinslinger on Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Thanks Punkin.

Explains the process of bullet expansion and energy shedding nicely.

Cheers, Vince

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Pumpkin, What does Rinker have to say about energy transfer, the central nerves system, and hydrostatic shock ? The stuff that drops a animal in its tracks.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Chambered, he has three chapters on terminal ballistics: "General", "Game & hunting" and "Self Defense".

In the chapter concerning hunting he says "The bullet's weight, velocity and expansion properties should be in proportion to the range, size and strength of the game."

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Thanks Mike !!!

Hmm !!! 3 chapters !!! Sounds like the type of info/read I've been looking for.
I'll look into getting a copy.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Humm I started getting hungry looking at the goat, will have to fix up myself a snack before bed!

Dimitri

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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:37 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Now that was nice and subtle 'Mitri....getting things back on Topic. Laughing Laughing

In fact, that goat does look nice doesn't it....I haven't had goat for a long time.

Cheers, Vince

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OntheLasGallinas
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Ahh, the subtle aroma and delicate taste of BBQ cabrito!

Cary

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

We are cooking them Indonesian style - stew in coconut milk with spices, carrots and potato.
YUUUMM!!!!

Of course I like to read the energy delivery discussion too..
It is somewhat relevant to the topic..

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Hollow Point Field Report (gory photos?) Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger, is this the Read Book I'm looking for ?



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