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ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER
Big Game Hunting topics that dont fit other categories
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vint2
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

Dead on, Cary This all started with a trespasser in Iowa who burglarized a house and walked into a set gun and lost his foot. He sued and the people lost their farm because the judge decided the set gun was indiscriminate!! Had the farmer sat there and shot him he would probably not have been able to sue!!

Getting permission is a good idea just from a personal safety point of view and you might even get some useful info for your outing!!!!! Smile

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Last edited by vint2 on Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

Crackshot wrote:
So your all telling me I have no right to just pick a direction and go?? What the hell? I wont hurt your horses or your damn tree's.....or anything else for that matter. Thats the whole problem with this country and the people in it........No trust.

Where does your attitude stop?
Would it be OK for someone to come onto YOUR land with a gun?
I am assuming that the only land you own is your home - is it OK for someone to walk into your home?
The land I own is my home - there is no difference. My land is fenced for the most pat and posted with signs every 50 feet or so. We have had to ask hunters to leave many times - in spite of the signs. If you don't know the area and you shoot - even if it is at a deer - are you going to put a bullet through my house? Me? my horse? You have no idea what is behind the target. It is always best to ask permission whether the land is posted or not - that way you can be told about areas to stay out of and what direction you can safely shoot.

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

Very Happy It is not that I own so much land that I am causing any hunter a problem, there are thousands of acres of land around the small plot that I own, all you have to do is ask my neighbors for their permission.

But, I suspect you will get no approval from them either. You killed three of their dogs, seriously wounded a couple of calves, and its funny how you cannot tell the difference between a wild turkey and a white farm raised turkey.

And oh, bye the way when I go to my elevated blind at 4:00 AM I do not expect to find you sitting there, I am amazed at how quickly you cut off the padlock, and further when you kill something on my land please pick it up and take it with you, I am tired of burying fox, rabbits, and the other varmints you kill.

So do not ask, no you may not hunt my land, you have no understanding of how much work I have put into it, besides just coming up with the money to buy it. I have spent heavily creating wildlife attractants, hundreds of trees, special pasture mixes that are blended for wildlife. You have no idea how much the lime, fertilizer, plowing, cutting, and digging ponds has cost me in money, time, and sweat.

Please avail yourself to the want adds there are many adds out there for land that you can buy, and treat as you wish.

If you think your different, that’s great but I do not know it and do not trust any of you any more, and I am tired of taking the chance, so just do not ask. We will both be happier.

Also, there are many hunting clubs that will be more than happy to help you out, and that’s much cheaper than buying 50 – 100 acres of land. They probably won’t even say anything while you blast away at anything that moves.

You have my best wishes, but stay off my land it is not hard to see the boundaries, yeah the big white painted blobs on the trees.

Oh and let me apologize for that bullet that just went whizzing past your head, if I wanted you dead you would not have hear the whiz. Just a kindly warning. Very Happy

Crackshot, sorry but I do not know you and don't want to. You are not exclusive and you need to stay off private property that you do not have written permission to be on. If you owned it you would understand. That hunting license gives you no special rights, except to hunt, on you own property or public property. NOT MINE!!

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

This thread has the potential to get a bit out of hand.

I agree with Crackster in that it would be great to be able to wander anywhere and everywhere without a problem, but unfortunately that just isn't possible anymore. For ever decent person out there, there is at least one moron.

We all know that the members here make up the numbers of those decent people, and we know that none of us would do the wrong thing. Sooo, instead of ripping one another's face off...as I said, we are all the good guys here...maybe we can just voice our opinion in a gentle friendly way, without getting personal, and maybe just agree to disagree...again, without getting personal.

I would welcome any one of "The Nuts" onto my place, if I had a farm, to hunt with either a firearm or a camera because I know the ethics that each and everyone of us holds uppermost. There are many more out there, that I don't know how they think or operate, that I would not allow past the front gate, but I would explain to them nicely the reason why.

What Lester says about cut locks etc is right though. Morons who did exactly that cost myself and a mate access to a property a few years back that we had hunted for some years. The owner put a blanket ban on all hunting...and I don't blame him one bit.

Cheers, Vince

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

Vince,

I suspect you are right, that the folks using this forum are not the problem, but sometimes I am surprised at what I read here too, and it fires me up.

Crying or Very sad I certainly did not mean to rip anyone’s face off, and if I have done so I sincerely apologize. I will double think my responses in the future.

But, the fact remains that trespassing is illegal, and I am paying a hefty insurance fee to protect myself from trespassers injuring themselves on my land, it is high because I don’t live there.

Also, who was there to help me stripping out the woods and replanting the trees the wild life needed, or stripping out more woods to create pasture, or help me plant any of the special seed, or to help with the pond. NO ONE!

And I suspect that I am not alone in this, many hunters are out there are buying land and trying to create special plots of land to help all wild life. Some of us actually go out and help the farmers, when they need it with things like cutting and hauling wood, or even just plowing for them.

But, some folks think it is there God given right to hunt wherever they may be, that’s a big no from me.

Vince, you are also correct that this thread has gotten way off base from the poaching that started it. There are many states that do not seem to take poaching very seriously, and until a few years ago the same was true of South Carolina. But, some hunters here got together with our DNR and forced them to come up with something better. The last poacher I heard of lost his car, rifle, hunting privileges, and had to pay a $24,000.00 fine for the loss of the deer, that $24k is what the DNR says a wild deer is worth. My point here is that, yes most DRN agents are not very bright, but there are some great ones out there too, they need our help to create and enforce the laws that will let our great grand children hunt too.

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

I hear ya Lester. Please don't think I was having a go at you as that is not my style.

Some people do tend to get a little hot under the collar or outspoken sometimes...but the best part is, around here we are all friends, and usually enjoy a good laugh with one another. In fact I consider a lot of the people here as an "extended family", they are that decent.

I understand the way you feel about your land mate, and its those bloody bottom feeder lawyers and the legal system who are to blame. They are hell bent on making a name for themselves and making as much money as they can. However, they tend to loose sight of reality when they go into their "win at any cost" frame of mind.

I support you wholeheartedly in your decision to not allow other hunters on your land...that is your right and privilege. But as I said before, I also agree with Crackster and his sentiments about being able to roam free. Its in our nature to do that as we basically come from a nomadic hunter/gatherer ancestry. Unfortunately we can no longer do it... a bit frustrating.

Oh well, not to worry, nothing I can do to change things so I'll just pick the fights I can win and leave it at that.

Its great to hear that your DNR is listening to the hunters. I think a lot of bureaucrats forget, or just don't know, that the most ardent animal conservationists around are hunters, albeit for our own selfish reasons. We want to be able to hunt and its only through resource management that we can achieve this.

Cheers, Vince

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

Vince,

I guess that I did feel you were having a little go at me, but that's OK, I may have gone a little far in one of the previous posts. But, from what I have read that you have posted I accept that, your posts are generally well thought out, precise, to the point and I enjoy reading them. If your ever in the neighborhood I would love to take you out to my place and show you whats going on, and yeah, even to hunt. That is the respect I have for you.

But the vast majority of hunters do not understand what some of us are trying to do, and what we are doing benefits all hunters in the long range.

What I am reading from a select few on this site is that they will do as they wish, regardless of anyone else's rights, this is bad for all hunters, period.

I will hunt on your land because I was just out wandering around and did not know where I was, my family was hungry so I am going to kill wildlife anywhere I can.

Well, I need to go to the store and my car won't start so I'll just take yours. I suspect that would not be OK with them, regardless of the circumstances.

Most hunters do not understand what people who own land that can be hunted go through, whether a farmer or a hunter, or the average Joe that buys some land, spends great deal of money, time, and sweat in improving what we own. I have spent almost half of what the land cost in improvements.

Sorry there I go again way up there on my soapbox.

Vince I sincerely hope that some day we will meet and have a great hunt together.

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

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vint2
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

[quote="lesterg3"]Vince,

What I am reading from a select few on this site is that they will do as they wish, regardless of anyone else's rights, this is bad for all hunters, period.

I will hunt on your land because I was just out wandering around and did not know where I was, my family was hungry so I am going to kill wildlife anywhere I can.

lesterg3,
Some people need a wake up call on these attitudes and some need a more vigorous wake up than others,so don't beat on your self too much. You fellows are both right and I think this is what this site is about that we can discuss, disagree, and still keep the peace!!!!!
By the way, hunting on my land is by invitation only and I still have the problems, my buddy has his land posted DONT EVEN ASK and he still has problems. Some poeple just wont listen!!!!! Smile

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

1. How is me or anyone else walking across property not owned by myself HARMING or hindering the owners use in any way?

I just dont like the whole "keep off/out" mentality. It says to me, they have something to hide.

2. Life is just to short to be a selfish, paranoid ass while Im here!

OH! PaulS, I own 120 acres localy not lived on, 1.9 I live on, 11 acres in the UP of Michigan (recently inherited), used to be a cabin on it but a Huge oak tree fell on it during an ice storm. I dont care to baby sit any of it. If the people are being destructive and I find out, they are asked to leave and not return. Otherwise I dont give a damn. The property in the uP is so remote the nearest town is 18 miles away and I have never seen another home or cabin close to it.

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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

Very Happy First of all-to crackshot:I agree with your take on "wanton waste of a game animal,and that if you need to feed your family that subsistance hunting is appropriate!Now on the tresspass issue-simply no!Back to the first of subsistance hunting-where I grew up on the north east corner of oregon it is a part of the rocky mountains and winters can get cold and long.Many of the people there used to work in the logging and associated industries.It was not uncommon to see pickups heading to the higher elevations(forests) after "firewood" after the snow was already a foot deep,and it was not uncommon to see the same pickups returning to the towns,homes,farms with a stack of firewood well above the sideboards and blood dripping out the tail gate.And nobody would waste anything!However in this day and age-game animals are poached on a regular basis and sold to restaurants of questionable character,or to other people that want(green)un chemically altered,steroid free,ect.meat.Poaching for profit is disgusting to real hunters!Now the next problem has to do with being a landowner and livestock.When some POS-SOB kills one of your farm raised steers and uses a chainsaw to cut out the hind quarters and just leaves the rest for you and the coyotes and the buzzards and you to find later-then the tresspass issue comes home real quick!My next neighbor who has 270 acres and many cattle came and asked me about 3years ago if I had seen any of his calves on my property he was missing fifteen-my answer was no.But then I asked if any of the other neighbors next to him had cattle/calves and he said yes.I asked if he had branded his or eartagged,or notched,and he said no.I told him that they probably made it to the sale yard in his neighbors trailer,and he was SOL without some kind of ID markings on his animals-expensive lesson to learn,and shows that sometimes you can't even trust you neighbors.

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

vint2,

Yes Vint everything you said is true. I am here to make friends, not enemies, but if that is what happens I'm good with it.

I read this site daily for quite awhile before I finally signed up. That should not be an implied consent or approval for every one's postings, here as well as anywhere there are people who think they have God given rights to do as they wish, but the vast majority of folks posting here have a brain.

I will call them as I see them, and I expect that you and many others will do the same. If we can't speak truly here where can we?

The most important thing we can all do is to make the public aware that hunters are conservationists, not just A--H---- out shooting up the woods on just anyone's property. That we spend far more than the anti-hunting, animal rights groups to promote and protect all species of animals.

It just takes one idiot to trash all the hard work we put into making the public aware. Hunting is a privilege that too many take for granted and complain when they have done nothing to help.

Thanks for standing up. Someday I hope we get the chance to meet.

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

PRIVILEGE!!!? Hunting is NOT a Privilege. The government wants you to THINK its a privilege. Its nothing any government can grant or take away from us.
Also to clarify, Im talking about tressassing.......not poaching, squating, moving in, destroying property..... Just tresspass.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

Hunting may not be a privilege but walking across another man's property has always been wrong. When the cattle drives had to cross private property it was customary to pay the land owner for the trespass. Every hunting safety handbook that I have seen warn about trespass - the hunting license is not a license to trespass. Respect the owners right to decide who accesses his property. People may be living there, there may be "game" animals being raised by the owner that are not wild. There may be children playing.
I have a right to expect that MY rights will be respected. It is MY property and only I can decide who enters. I have all my property posted- in town and out in the country. Not even a federal law enforcement officer can come one the properties without a warrant - unless invited in.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

Hunting is very definetly a privilege that you buy a license to exercise. I have the right to hunt because I own huntable property and the state says I do not have to buy a license to hunt on it. However, if I hunt on your land I need a license and your permission to get to exercise my privelege to hunt there!!!! Hunting on my land is by INVITATION ONLY, and I check for licenses and things like NRA membership. If people don't like it they can just stay home and not get the invite!!
The last trespasser I talked to was informed that if he showed up in the neighborhood again he would talk to the sheriff. I have not seen him again and It is a good thing!!!!!!lester3g I think we could have a real good campofire session!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: ELK SHOT AND RAVAGED BY POACHER Reply with quote

I think respect should be given to landowners. I don't own huntable land so I have asked permission to hunt "private" property all my life. When I couldn't get local private land I hunted State land. Trespass laws vary from state to state but the bottom line is there are laws against trespassing, weather one agrees with it or not is a personal choice but to ignore it is illegal. Just my opinion
Joe

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