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All round best international cartridge and gun
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:41 pm    Post subject: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

Wow!! this is a really open question and I suspect that I will get many opinions.

That's great, I want to hear from every one.

I am in the market for a new rifle, bolt action.

What I want is something (varying on cartridge load) that is as accurate at 100 yards as 1000 yards and that has the energy and velocity to kill whatever at 1000 yards with one shot.

The only caliber that I am not interested in is .500.

I am greatly interested in your opinions.

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

45-70, 45-90, 45-110, 45-120 family has been doing these for a long long time..
Even though they have rainbow banana like trajectory, with some calculation they can be very accurate at long distance.
Added to that the brick like weight of the projectile can carry a lot of momentum for a long distance.
Then again I am biased.. Twisted Evil Muahahahahaha!!

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

Les, in my opinion there is no overall "best" cartridge/gun. There are just too many variables for one cartridge/gun to handle them all. Its kinda like saying which of the set is the "best" golf club. Well, are you putting or teeing off? That's why most of us try to have a variety of stuff to choose from.

That said, I do think that there is a range of cartridges that would handle almost everything anyone is likely to hunt. These would be the various 7mm and .30 calibers. Lots to choose from among those too. They'd be heavy for varmints and light for the really big stuf but can work for both. If I had to pick one of my guns as the "do all" I'd take my Winchester Model 70 in .280 Rem. Another obvious choice would be a .30-06.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

30-06 Springfield or the 303 British.

Anywhere in the world they can be had pretty much. Can also put down any animal with a properly aimed shot.

But your "kill anything at 1000 yards" makes me say the 416 Barret since you do not want a 50 caliber.

Dimitri

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

lesterg3 wrote:
What I want is something (varying on cartridge load) that is as accurate at 100 yards as 1000 yards and that has the energy and velocity to kill whatever at 1000 yards with one shot.

The only caliber that I am not interested in is .500.

Your best bet would be a 408 Cheytac or the 338 Lapua Magnum. Be it known, however, the 338 Lapua Magnum wouldn't be legal for elephant, rhino and cape buffalo. If you hit the animal in the brain at 1,000 yards with a solid bullet from one of these it should dispatch it handily. In the case of the cape buffalo, the part of the head you hit it in has to be a part not covered with horn however.

Your wanting your rifle to be as accurate at 1,000 yards as at 100 yards is not realistic for quite a number of reasons such as wind, bullet stability, etc.

The longest range at which I've ever shot anything was a bit over 400 yards. Cartridges such as the 7mm Remington Magnum, 300 Weatherby Magnum, 25-06 Remington, 257 Weatherby Magnum and many others work well at that range.
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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

Thanks for all the input.

As for wind, humidity, bullet, rain the gips, etc., etc. Those are variances that effect a shot not the rifles inherent accuracy. I have .270 Savage 110, Remington 700 7mm Mag, and a Remington 700 30-06.

Just looking for something new. What I forgot to mention in my original post was Shocked that I wanted something in an international caliber, my meaning is the cartridges would be available worldwide in case of any shortages.

I guess I am still in love with the .308 I had in Nam (7.62x51mm), and there should never be any problem obtaining that round.

I am seriously looking at the Savage 12 12FV Varminter. Looks great to me, I like my 110 a little more that my 700's. Not that there is anything wrong with the Remington's, don't want to start a war.

So anyway, Yeah the -06 has a little more oomph at 100 yards, but I like the .308, so shoot me, nah just kidding. I just want a new toy. Very Happy

Anybody have experience with the 12FV?

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

Les,
A piece of advice, the well-regarded older rounds are so, because they are what they are, good at what they do.

Look at the 300 Win Mag. The Winnie is a favorite all over the world and has been the long distance sniper round (300 yards out) chosen by many governments around the world. It will do what you have listed to have done and much more.
Best,
Ed

PS: The 06 is probably the most recommended hunting round on the globe. Ask any PH anywhere what rifle/cartridge to bring for your hunt and the 06 is the first cartridge out of his mouth.

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

SwampFox,

Thanks for the info on the 300 Mag, looked at some Federal ballistics tables with 180 gr Barnes MRX. The stats were very impressive. I will probably put a 300 Win Mag on the Christmas wish list for next year.

Thanks for the info, and have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year..

Les

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

I was experimenting with the 110gr V-Max bullet with my Model 70 300WinMag, with unbelievable results.

Then I got stuck running the Club's Pistol League, and haven't returned to shooting the .300 for a while.

I started playing with the V-Max just because I could, and figured that it would either shoot all over the place, or drive tacks.
It drove tacks.
This next summer, I want to start shooting long yardages with it, to see what happens.

I'll let you know.

Eric

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wncchester
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

.458 Winchester. You can take anything from ground squirrels to elephants at any range you can hit. Anything else is a compromise.
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sniper
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

lesterg3 wrote:
. I just want a new toy. Very Happy

Lester: That's the spirit! Very Happy

1 shot from mouse to elefante at 1,000 yards? Shocked

Hmmmmm....I couldn't even SEE an elephant at 1K yards, let alone hit it!

Might I suggest a 20 mm anti-tank rifle, like was used in WWII? With a proper scope, of course! Cool


Gelan wasn't that far off, tho. They did some tests a few years ago, to see exactly what sort of trajectory the old blackpowder calibers did have, using sophisitcated projectile-tracking radar, that could resolve someting as small as a bullet.

They concluded that the famous shot at Adobe Walls (1200+ yards, at the UNLUCKIEST indian in the universe at that moment) could have been accomplished with much less elevation than you would believe possible...about a 5 degree elevation, iirc.
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Doublejs
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: All round best international cartridge and gun Reply with quote

IMO the best "international" would be the 308 Win / 7.62 NATO.

I am speaking bias because this was my first rifle....I still love this round. Smile
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