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Anyone make Paper Cartridges?
Hunting and discussion with Muzzle Loaders, Archery and other Primitive weapons
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

Title says it all pretty much.

Anyone make paper cartridges for their Muzzle Loaders?

Thinking a ML is in my future (perhaps for next fall), will be a percussion and of reproduction in nature (Thinking of a Whitworth reproduction) so was wondering if anyone make them and any tips you may give me.

Dimitri

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:33 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

I've made tons of them for reenacting! Pretty easy really. I'll send you a "how to" in email as soon as I get a chance to write it up.

Whitworth huh! Nice choice but be prepared to lay out some hard cash on that. Proper bullets may be difficult to find too but the REAL (Rifling Engraved At Loading) type might work, although they aren't as sexy as the original style. You might find info on the North-South Skirimish Association site, www.n-ssa.org/

Also try Long Range Muzzleloader at www.lrml.org/

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

Dixie Gun works lists the Euroarms as 1,095$, and yes I cannot by it from Dixie however it seems the cost of the Italian reproductions are 250$ more here then their site. Not too bad at the end of the day all things considered the older mid-1800 muzzle loaders appeal to me more then the new plastic stocked inlines. Smile

Dixie Lists pre-cast hexagonal ammunition and I can apparently have it shipped to Canada but the cost of a Peter Dyson mold which is high to cast hexagonal ammunition. But its either get the mold for about 300$ and cast my own for a life time or end up buying the hexagonal ammunition for ~50$ for 50 (costs more then my rifle ammunition per round!). Seems like a no "brainer" to me. Laughing

Not really planning on scoping it, but I have found reproduction Davidson scope mounts for it, however the only references to a reproduction scope seem to be that they in themselves can cost as much as the rifle itself! Shocked

By the way, are all "period correct" cartridge boxes meant to hold 40 rounds? Confused

I kind of have a habit of collecting military equipment, and I know the moment I have the rifle at hand I'll be looking at getting a belt and accessories. So planning ahead. Very Happy

Dimitri

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

Euroarms makes good stuff, that's what my repro 1853 Enfield is.

40 rounds is right. There are several good sutlers who can provide the accoutrements you might want. There are links on the NSSA site. Fall Creek has been around for a long time and Jarnigans is the grand-dad of them all. There are Civil War reenactment groups all over the place and you might be able to find one nearby who can help you with getting authentic reproductions.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

Funny thing is the Euroarms and Pedersoli Whitworth rifles are apparently made at the same plant at the same time from what I have been able to gather since Parker Hale let Euroarms produce raw parts for them giving the Italians the information needed to reproduce them.

Thanks for the information on the Sutlers, all I know of is Dixie from reviews of them being good, will be checking them out.

A belt, percussion cap pouch, a cartridge box, and a Haversack to use as a possibilities bag is all I will probably be getting.

Although doing some reenacting sounds interesting have not really thought about it. I do believe there is a couple in not too long (~2 hour) drive around me. If I remember correctly (its been a few years) they are mainly Confederate Units not so much Federal.

Dimitri

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

If you carry that cartridge box loaded you'll want the shoulder strap for it. Some have belt loops but almost 3.5 pounds of ammo sure will drag on a belt!

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

Some of them appear to come sans-attachment points for the Shoulder Straps, the Early M1857 style to be exact as they are also shorter.

Interesting though, that Jarnagin makes their own leather products instead of having you guess what far away country they made them in. Smile

Edit: Guess I will have to pick one up that uses a strap, thanks for the tip! Very Happy

Dimitri

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

You should have email soon.

By the way, Pedersoli also makes nice guns. Like almost everyone elses they might require a little polishing on the trigger. So did my Euroarms (and Winchesters and Remingtons and Rugers and S&Ws and ...).

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

Got it!

Dimitri

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

I think I am going to have LONG cartridges.

Going by 35 grains of FFFg is 2.2cc or 60 grains is approximately .584 cubic inches. Using the constraint of the .45 caliber bore, I'd have to make the powder tube itself 3.9" long. Shocked

Dimitri

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

D, something there doesn't jive. My powder tubes, made on a 0.5" tube, are only 1.5" long and hold 60 grains of powder with some room to spare. Your volume number would make them 3" long.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

I am guessing so!

Must have done the math wrong or used the wrong numbers. Sad

Dimitri

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

I found this chart online;

www.curtrich.com/BPCon...nSheet.htm

For a 60 grain charge I come up with a 1.22" tall powder column using a 0.5" ID tube and a 2.2" using a 0.375" ID tube. I think your conversion from cubic centimeters to cubic inches was the glitch.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

I am thinking the same. Embarassed

2.2" (powder) + 1.5" (bullet) = 3.75 inch long lets say. That sounds a lot more reasonable.

Thanks!

Decided to replicate some paper cartridges without the powder or actual round just for kicks when I tried doing the math. Smile

Dimitri

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone make Paper Cartridges? Reply with quote

D, looks like I lead you astray somewhat, there is a picture of the actual Whitworth factory style cartridge on this site:

www.cartridgeid.com/Types.html

However, you'd need more specialized tools to make a cartridge like that. I'm thinking that the service powder charge was 70 grains.

The IT nazis here at work block almost all gun or historical websites so it's hard to find correct info. I can do it at home but usually when there I am trying to get some sleep!

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