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Gun Rights Suspended
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BigBlue
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:58 am    Post subject: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

I originally came across this story a few days ago on a PA. based gun owners forum. In PA. it is perfectly legal for anyone over 18 to carry a firearm openly, concealed carry requires a permit. This story reminds me of the suspension of gun rights during hurricane Katrina when lawful owners had their guns confiscated. I just thought I should share this and let all of you know that evidently our rights are only valid until the police say they're not.
Don

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot View Post
OCDO press release:

Formatted Version:
paopencarry.org/beaver/beaver.pdf
_______________________________________


Text version:

OpenCarry.org
For Immediate Release – August 31, 2008

PA Police Follow “Smoketown 6” (*1) Playbook in Beaver County!

Did Obama’s Secret Service Detail Order
PA Police to Suspend Right to Bear Arms in Entire Town?

Here we go again. When a Presidential candidate comes to town in Pennsylvania, Americans had better “watch what they say, watch what they do.” (*2)

Last Friday Beaver County resident John (“Jack”) Noble was just doing his normal thing – passing out some fliers about Pennsylvania gun rights in a park while openly carrying his holstered “small-caliber handgun.” (*3) And then the police began breaking laws.

Let’s be clear on the facts:

• Mr. Noble was not at the Obama event – he was merely in McIntosh Park “near the Obama event,” (*4) which was scheduled to be held later that evening at Irvine Park across Market Street. (*5)

• Mr. Noble did not breach “a secured perimeter of a presidential candidate political rally” as falsely alleged by PA State Police Trooper Shawn Schexnaildre, (*6) nor did Noble ignore any signs or warnings.

• Barrack Obama’s Secret Service detail appears to be implicated in the unlawful police action to clear the streets of any gun carriers (*7) throughout the town of Beaver, PA, just like they were implicated a few years ago in ordering the arrest of the “Smoketown 6” where President Bush drove through Pennsylvania.

“‘I am a threat to no one. Mr. Obama doesn't trump my constitutional rights. The president of the United States doesn't trump my constitutional rights,’ said John Noble, who was handcuffed, questioned for about two hours and then told by state police that he would receive two citations for disorderly conduct.” (*8)

But here’s the rub - Jack carries openly through that town routinely, and Obama being there does not change state law.

Unlike the “Smoketown 6” protesters, Jack Noble was not wearing a thong or “protesting.” Jack was just passing out fliers and openly carrying his holstered handgun – activities “clearly protected” by the Pennsylvania and federal constitutions. (*9) The idea of the police needing to verify Jack’s “permit to carry” (*10) (reported by one news outlet) is a canard – in Pennsylvania, like most states, no permit is required to openly carry a holstered handgun at age 18.

Further, as can be verified by one of several concealed carriers observing the police misconduct, Jack was in McIntosh Park, and not Irvine Park where
Obama’s private event was scheduled to be held later in the evening. (*11) And Jack was not attempting to gain entry into, or get in the path of, Obama’s private event.

When “deputies asked why he had a gun, Noble replied, ‘Because I’m an American,’ and one of the deputies responded, ‘Well, you’re under arrest.’ Noble was hustled to a nearby [United States Secret Service] vehicle, and state police took him to the Brighton Township barracks to [interrogate] him.” (*12)

Adding insult to injury, Pennsylvania State Police officers refused to identify themselves to Noble, never issued a summons, but still confiscated his handgun without issuing a receipt as required by the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act which provides that

The owner of any seized or confiscated firearms shall be provided with a signed and dated written receipt by the appropriate law enforcement agency. This receipt shall include, but not limited to, a detailed identifying description indicating the serial number and condition of the firearm. (*13)

Nobody’s questioning the right of Presidential candidates to hold private events. But the Pennsylvania police must not become constitution-violating-goons for Presidential candidates or their Secret Service details.

OpenCarry.org calls on Governor Rendell to order a halt to unlawful police-state tactics at Presidential campaign events so as to preclude any more “Smoketown 6” or “Beaver County Jack” incidents.
###

Media Contacts:
PAOpenCarry.org Founder:
Rich Banks/papatriot@frontlinearmory.com
OpenCarry.org co-founders:
Mike Stollenwerk/Mike@OpenCarry.org
John Pierce/John@OpenCarry.org

__________________________________________________ _____
FOOTNOTES

1. See generally Shannon P. Duffy, Thong-Clad Protesters Stripped of Civil Rights Suit, Legal Intelligencer, May 23, 2008 (reporting that despite fact that disorderly conduct charges were dismissed, police Defendants in civil suit were “entitled to ‘qualified immunity’” because the wearing of thongs as expressive conduct (protesting Abu Graib Prison abuses in Iraq) was not “clearly established”), available at www.law.com/jsp/articl...421637055.
2. See Ari Fleisher, at www.whitehouse.gov/new...926-5.html (quoting Presidential spokesman as telling press “Americans . . . need to watch what they say, watch what they do. This is not a time for remarks like that; there never is.”).
3. Bill Vidonic, Man arrested for having gun at rally, Beaver County Times, August 29, 2008, available at www.timesonline.com/ar...14530.txt. See also Man Brought Gun, Bible To Obama Event In Beaver, The Pittsburgh Channel.com, August 30, 2008, at www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26464328.
4. Brian C. Rittmeyer, Beaver County man defends carrying gun near Obama rally, Tribune-Review, August 31, 2008, available at www.pittsburghlive.com...5805.html.
5. See map at tinyurl.com/5pjcwy provided by PAOpenCarry.org.
6. Brian C. Rittmeyer, Beaver County man defends carrying gun near Obama rally, Tribune-Review, August 31, 2008 (emphasis added), available at www.pittsburghlive.com...5805.html.
7. Milan Simonich, Industry man contests arrest outside Obama rally, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, August 30, 2008, available at www.post-gazette.com/p...1-100.stm.
8. See, e.g., McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Com'n, 514 U.S. 334 (1995) (handing out fliers in public protected by First Amendment); District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S.Ct. 2783, 2793 (2008) (“At the time of the founding, as now, to ‘bear’ meant to, ‘carry.’”); Id. at 2809 ("In Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243, 251 (1846), the Georgia Supreme Court construed the Second Amendment as protecting the “natural right of self-defence” and therefore struck down a ban on carrying pistols openly. Its opinion perfectly captured the way in which the operative clause of the Second Amendment furthers the purpose announced in the prefatory clause, in continuity with the English right.") (emphasis added).
9. Frankly, Jack is well known by the Beaver County police community as a frequent open carrier and holder of a background check vetted Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms (needed to conceal carry) issued by the Beaver County Sherriff.
10. See map at tinyurl.com/5pjcwy created by PAOpenCarry.org.
11. Bill Vidonic, Man arrested for having gun at rally, Beaver County Times, August 29, 2008, available at www.timesonline.com/ar...14530.txt. See also Bill Vidonic, Man says he had right to carry gun to rally, Beaver County times, August 30, 2008, available at www.timesonline.com/ar...22905.txt.
12. 18 Pa.C.S. § 6105(f)(4) (emphasis added).
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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

Shocked This should be made into a law sute,and be taken all the way to the supreme court of the US! Mad
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dust54
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

It is going to get worse if the Dems get into power. We need to be very careful who we divulge information about firearms and our personal items. The internet is not secure and is a source of information for anyone. You may call me paranoid. But there are too many circumstances where true rights are trampled on occuring across this nation.

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Irv S
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

Pennsylvania does not permit open carry without a permit. A "Sportsman"s License" issued by the County Sheriff is required even to carry a handgun while hunting or fishing. If you have information to the contrary, please post a reference to the law or court decision.
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roklok
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

I was thinking the same thing, Irv S. I used to live in PA and was not aware of such a thing either. My understanding was that you could carry openly(not concealed) with a "sportsmans license" in conjunction with a hunting or fishing license. Pennsylvania does not have a "concealed carry license", they have a "license to carry a firearm" which allows for concealed or open carry.
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:38 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

Here is a link that some of you should read !!!
Please follow some of the other links with it for a better understanding.

www.pafoa.org/law/carr...aled-carry

Also, a sportsmen permit is only for hunting and fishing purposes period. It is required if carrying a handgun afield.

A sportsmen permit is not needed if a concealed license is obtained.
The concealed gun may only be used for hunting purposes if it meets the handgun hunting criteria. ( no semi’s in Pa. )

The confusion in PA on this issue is well understood by game officers.
Know the law or you’ll be another one of their easy arrest !!!

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BigBlue
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

Irv S wrote:
Pennsylvania does not permit open carry without a permit. A "Sportsman"s License" issued by the County Sheriff is required even to carry a handgun while hunting or fishing. If you have information to the contrary, please post a reference to the law or court decision.

I'm no lawyer, but I do know that your referencing a hunting regulation and are correct in your interprtation of that hunting reg. However no law exists in PA. against open carry, so it's hard for me to quote a law that doesn't exist. You may not carry openly in a car without a concealed carry permit or in cities of the first class. Also off limits to carrying a gun are any court facility, federal facilities, state parks(except while in vehicle), detention facilities, secured areas of airport terminals.
There are two cases you may wish to review, that specifically state that a person may carry openly: www.tinyurl.com/2wtovz and www.tinyurl.com/346wwr Here are the specific laws that pertain to carrying in PA.: Ref: 18 PACS 6106, 6107, and 6108.
Here is a link that might help explain things more clearly: www.paopencarry.org
Don
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

Gun carrying isn't the only thing that has been suspended.
There have been raids conducted on political activist homes without warrants, reporters have been arrested trying to get to the convention floor because they were "inciting a riot" by publishing unfavorable stories.
People hand-cuffed and laid on their living room floor while police in riot gear confiscated computers, journals and diaries. The warrant used (when one was used) allowed police to confiscate cardboard boxes, flamable liquids and string as proof of terrorist goals.
Those who were targeted were mostly young people but there were also houses that out of town reporters were staying in and anyone known to have been involved in political activity not favorable to whichever party happened to be in town.
The anti-terrorism law was used to allow the police to invade homes without warrants and to confiscate property without recourse. Even if no arrests were made materials were confiscated.

When did I move to China?
Don't we have the right to peacefully say what is on our minds?
no, jimmy, there is no such thing as a bill of rights in Amerika, that died with the United States back in 2003.

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BigBlue
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

PaulS,
This is the first I'm hearing of these illegal raids. The fact that it doesn't surprise me is indicative of the times. Has any of this been reported by the local media or is that being surpressed?
Don
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:02 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

The main stream media is staying out of it. I think they got the message. There are some "fringe" media people who have gotten films on the internet - one where their reporter was arrested just trying to take her place on the floor of the convention.
A lot of the raids are taking place far from the conventions - in private homes so the media is too close. Watch for law suits and reports from ACLU..... They are bound to get involved.

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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

wtf Scary Stuff indeed! wtf
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whittling
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

Its sad to think that Obama believes that he can order anyone around . Using those laws ,HE could be arrested!!

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

The sad thing is that any of us could have our homes searched and everything from our computers, paint thinner to our guns, knives and reloading supplies could be confiscated without a warrant and without any charges being files against us. Our property would disappear and we would be defenseless.
Now I could through together a 12 ga muzzle loader in no time, along with some other (antique) firearms but most folks would just have to sit and wonder if they were ever going to see their propperty again.
When the news media started reporting that a suspected terrorist's home had been searched and they found 27 knives, 12 firearmes, 1000s of rounds of ammo and supplies to make explosives and inciniaries (reloading supplies and paint thinner and gas for the mower) you could lose your job, home and..........?
Personally, I believe it is time to reign in the government before we have a civil war - which is why they are doing what they are.

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vint2
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

I believe that government should have been reined in a long time ago!!! Dr. Allen Keyes made the point in his Presidential campaign that we as Americans are NOT a free people,and we still have done nothing about it!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Rights Suspended Reply with quote

The majority of the people will never do anything until they are personally affected. Our founding fathers risked everything in pursuit of liberty, but you'll never get the average American to move off their well padded butts until their televisions don't work, their fridge is empty, their A.C. won't work and their car won't run. Until they wake up in third world squalor they will put up with any loss of freedoms from this government.
Don
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