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STUPID!
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

Bushmaster, I swear I can hear that neighbor's little dog barking...

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

Yup.....

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English Mike
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

There is no way I'll hunt through oak scrub in bear country without a round in the chamber.
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

Come on guys, lets keep things civil.

I doubt anyone would disagree hunting with an empty chamber is safer than not... but I also think there can be times when hunting with a chambered round is safe and actually recommended, ie: as English Mike mentioned about bear country... I have hunted in Alaska where you are in the heart of grizz country where they have been conditioned to seek out gunshots for a free lunch. Its really spooky following up a blood trail of a caribou in willows that are 10ft tall and you have near zero visibility and knowing there are bears around. No way in hell you could jack in a shell and fire if a bear busts out on you at 10ft. I counted 12 bears in 3 days that trip and didnt unload my rifle(s) until I stepped onto the float plane to fly me out of that ***forsaken hole.

A time and a place for everything I guess.

I've heard arguments from people that hunt both ways, loaded and unloaded. I've heard from a few friends that hunted loaded and had a discharge. Its a matter of preference, and there are plenty of people who hunt with a hot round that never have an issue.

The only time i've ever really disagreed publicly with someone on this subject was on this forum the guy that hunted with a hot load under an "uncocked" fireing pin. Anyone remember that thread? Wow... He would chamber a round then decock the bolt and lower the firing pin onto the primer because he felt he couldnt trust the safety catch.

Anyway everyone should "agree to disagree" and move on to a new subject...


-DallanC
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

Dallan, I remember reading some Capstick where he said he carried a round in the chamber like that. Loaded the round and, as he SLOWLY closed the bolt, held the trigger down to uncock the rifle. When he found game he'd just raise and lower the bolt handle to cock it. Can't say I've tried that.

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OntheLasGallinas
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

This is a country where we are free to choose. If one feels safer without a loaded gun, that's your choice. I guess we'll just agree to disagree with some on each side of the fence. With that said, I'm moving on to a different forum subject.

Have a great day.

Cary

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

Guys, I feel a bit ashamed to introduce this extension to the topic.
I have not meant for the old disagreement flame to fired up again.

But the fact of the matter is from the OP's topic of being stupid and have a live round in the chamber, I thought about my experience where a .308 mysteriously appear on my supposedly empty chamber.

As I said before, I usually have an empty chamber until I BEGIN MY STALK.
I understand that loading made "strange" metalic noises that may spook the prey.
That is the reason I load just before the stalk.
While stalking, my senses are heightened, I watch where I put my foot and branches or any other impediment that may cause me to move suddently and create noise.
Thus I deem that the firearm is a tad more safe from accidental discharges while I stalk.

I usually unload the gun once the stalk is finished whether by a successful kill or if the animal managed to notice me and run away.
I usually keep my chamber loaded, and safety engaged when following a blood trail, and again unload once the kill is confirmed.

That is why when I found a live round popped out from the chamber when I try to load the gun just before I stalk, gave me goose bumps..

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

The moment one gets too confident that they have a unloaded chamber is when there will be a round in the chamber. Guns always have around in the chamber, whether or not you think there is one, there is a safety flag or the gun has been field stripped. The round is still sitting in the chamber waiting for that firing pin to hit the primer.

Muzzle in the "lower ready carry" position (ie pointed to the ground), Magazine is loaded, a round in the chamber, safety on and finger out of the trigger guard. Once you Identify your target, safety off, finger on the trigger, take aim and shoot.

Dimitri

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

Dallan wrote:
Come on guys, lets keep things civil.

I doubt anyone would disagree hunting with an empty chamber is safer than not... but I also think there can be times when hunting with a chambered round is safe and actually recommended.

Anyway everyone should "agree to disagree" and move on to a new subject...

Well said Dallan. I particularly agree with your everyone should "agree to disagree" and move on to a new subject. comment. I'd hate to see another occurrence of the Barrel Vibrations event.

I agree with ALL of the posts...well parts of each and every one of them. I can see good, honest and pertinent comments and advice in every post on this subject. I hunt hot, and have never had a problem, but as Wilds says...it can happen at any time.

Joe wrote:
Its a personal choice. It's just personal preferance. As a couple of you guys stated I would rely on my training and safe handling practices.

From my perspective, and as Joe said, it is all about training.

Wilds has trained his young tackers to do it the way he considers safest, and I ain't about to argue with that because they are his kids and he is the Dad/Teacher. One thing about being an Instructor...you have to live with the outcome of any training you deliver to others. If one of your students does something silly and injures another person whilst doing a task you have trained him/her to do, then you as the instructor are also looked at to ascertain whether or not you trained him/her correctly and in the appropriate procedures. This happens everytime there is a Police shooting over here in Oz. Also happens in the military if there is an accident with a firearm. Idea of this is to, in some cases apportion blame, in others to ensure that the training delivered is correct or if things can be done in a better way.

I never had an instructor when I was a youngun' and bought my first rifle...I taught myself and learnt from experience. I had a couple of close calls, but fortunately nothing as nasty as an AD. I suppose I was maybe lucky, but I have always applied a common sense approach. I lift the bolt handle and place my firearm flat on the ground when going over/through a fence, unload it if I consider there is need for it when traversing nasty ground and never carry hot in a vehicle...unless we are spotlighting from the back of a ute or similar, and then I am loaded only when it is my turn to hunt/shoot.

After I joined the Australian Army in 1977 I was trained by the best Infantry instructors around...men who had been in firefights in Vietnam. In fact my first instructor was a Special Forces (SAS) "two tour" veteran. They trained...no, DRILLED.....us in safe, competent weapon handling. They constantly drilled us day in and day out, at night, when we were fresh and when we were tired and exhausted, and ripped us a new "ailimentary orifice" if we stuffed up. Their job was to train us in the instinctive application of weapon handling skills that were safe but ensured a weapon that was ready for action in a heartbeat. we knew by a simple glance, or touch, the "weapon state" of our firearm. This training covered every weapon we were even remotely likely to carry...pistol, rifle, sub-machine gun, machine gun, grenade launcher and grenade and anti-armour rocket launcher. Men's lives, our mate's lives, depended on this training. I have never forgotten this training and every time I pick up a firearm it comes to the fore. The principles are exactly the same regardless if it is a military weapon or a civilian firearm, semi auto, bolt action or single shot; rifle, pistol or shotgun.

Rant Laughing

So, as most have said....it is personal choice. If you have the experience and training to carry hot in safety then do so. If your training is hunt cold then do as you have been trained dictates. It is your training and experience, plus the application of common sense, that makes you safe. Most importantly we must never forget our old mate Murphy and his Law, and remember...if it feels wrong or unsafe then it most likely is and we need to take steps to make it feel right....whatever they may be.

Cheers, Vince

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

I always hunt with a loaded chamber.
To each his own on this one, but I believe that I have enough common sense to not do something stupid in the woods or duck blinds, or goose pits.
Until now, I have never hunted with anyone that kept a cold chamber.
We all have learned from youth that if on ice, crossing fences, or anything else that is a hazard, we unload. It may sound heartless, but that kid in Alaska, walking on ice with a loaded gun, was doing exactly the opposite of what I teach students in my Classes. He took a chance, and didn't get away with it.
I have taught Firearms Safety for the Minnesota DNR sense 1974, and none of the thousands of kids that I have certified have had any accidents, Thank the Lord.
I'm as quick as anybody with a shotgun or rifle, but there is no way that I could rack a round into the chamber as fast as I can shoot with a round in the chamber.

Anytime that we hunt big game, we take a calculated chance on having an accident.
No backstops. In heavy woods we assume that nobody is just out of sight behind the Game that we are shooting at.
It is part of hunting.

I'm a Chief Range Officer, and Rangemaster, and would eject anybody with a loaded firearm before I gave the command.
However comparing range shooting to hunting, is comparing apples to oranges.

Different places, and different games.

Like Dallan, I don't condemn people for different ways to hunt.
It would be great fun to pheasant hunt next to a guy with a cold chamber however. Very Happy Very Happy

Eric

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dick1208
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

yep difficult one
over here in South Africa there are still a couple
of accidents every year where hunters shoot n kill themselves slipping
down embankments etc.
God forbid its you or I they get!
hey keep safe !
Sad
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Don.C
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

Hey what’s happen to common sense “The Gun is always Loaded”
The shot is activated by the trigger and the bullet flies the way the barrel is pointed
Stupid
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

I honestly don't know Don. Confused

Dimitri

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

I want to thank everyone who has posted on this subject. I've always hunted "hot", but now am re-thinking my practices. I can see some cases where a "cold" chamber might be more appropriate (groundhog, coyote, and turkey hunting come to mind first), but can also make a case for a "hot" chamber in some circumstances (rabbit [that's a stupid lookin'word when you type it] hunting, where I hunt alone and without a dog).

I've never experienced an AD, and prefer to keep it that way. I HAVE been hunting with someone who did, and he barely missed killing his prized beagle. I don't wanna be the one that's gotta try to explain to his wife what happened, so I'll insist he review his practices before the bunny season starts this year.

Again, THANKS for getting me thinking about this!!

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: STUPID! Reply with quote

Great job with the boy Wilds!

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