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codybrown Super Member
Joined: Feb 10, 2007 Posts: 379 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: What can I use as filler? |
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I'm reloading some shells for one of my .338's for my girlfriend to shoot. I don't want to load them as hot as the book calls for. What can I use as filler in the case?
_________________ I make mistakes like the next man. In fact, rather cleverer than most men, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly larger. |
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Deleted_User_2665 Super Member
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 380
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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Danger Close...!!
Look up AA5744 powder for reduced loads in large capacity cases.
My kid, 12 years old, was a couple of years ago shootin' my 300 RUM/180 grain bullets comfortably....
Adding filler to a bottle neck cartridge is asking for Big Trouble..........
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Deleted_User_2665 Super Member
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 380
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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I'll add also...
NEVER go under a minimum published load as excessive pressures can build from that just the same or worse than over charging a load.
AA5744 is DESIGNED to take up the space of larger capacity cartridges yet yield a lower pressure round with less felt recoil...
AVOID fillers in a bottleneck case and AVOID under charging ANY chambering......like it is a matter of Life or Death.
SAVVY...!?!?!?!?!
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Deleted_User_2665 Super Member
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 380
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Deleted_User_2665 Super Member
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 380
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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They list AA5744 loads for the 338 Win Mag , 338 RUM, and 338 Laupa....
If you need something else, I'd call 'em and see if they have new data available.
Hope this helps....
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Deleted_User_2665 Super Member
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 380
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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DallanC Site Admin
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3571 Location: Utah
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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wildswalker wrote: |
NEVER go under a minimum published load as excessive pressures can build from that just the same or worse than over charging a load. |
This is very true. Its very dangerous to try unproven "light" loads to reduce recoil. There are various theories out there as to what exactly is happening to cause the absurd pressure spikes, but its proven they do happen.
The two theories I remember that seemed plausable to me are:
A). The powder only fills the case partially, and when fired horizonally, the powder doesnt cover the flash hole entirely so the primer is able to ignite all down the greater surface area of the powder at once. Contrast this with a normal load where the primer only able to ignite the powder near the flashbhole itself, then the rest of the powder is ignited via the overall burn rate.
B). The primer exposed partially and is able to push the bullet forward, into the lands before igniting the powder itself, creating a barrel obstruction situation.
-DallanC
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Deleted_User_2665 Super Member
Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 380
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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"Reduced" Mouse Loads are not just the only point Dallan...
Filler, which would act to take up the void, in a bottle neck, is Real Bad Mojo as well.
I'll look around and see if I can find a discussion on it.........
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codybrown Super Member
Joined: Feb 10, 2007 Posts: 379 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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Well, I will just load them to the smallest load in the book. It will give me 2850fps, as opposed to the normal 3006fps. Thank you for your help Dallan and wildswalker!!
_________________ I make mistakes like the next man. In fact, rather cleverer than most men, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly larger. |
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jeh7mmmag Member
Joined: Dec 24, 2006 Posts: 223 Location: DFW, TX.
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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338 Winchester Magum - 200 grain Win. PP bullet, 39.5 grains SR 4759 powder, WLR primer, Winchester case. COL 3.330". MV 2335 fps in 25" test barrel. MAP 54,000 CUP. (Based on the IMR Smokeless Powder Reloader's Guide, April 2004.)
.338 Winchester Magum - 250 grain Speer Grand Slam bullet, 32.0 grains SR 4759 powder, CCI 250 primer, Winchester case. COL 3.300". MV 1856 fps in 24" barrel. (Based on the Speer Reloading Manual No. 13.)
www.chuckhawks.com/red...eloads.htm
Hodgon also has a listing for reduced loads on there site.
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jeh7mmmag Member
Joined: Dec 24, 2006 Posts: 223 Location: DFW, TX.
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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I don't know what has happened to the Hodgon site lately but I can't pull up the reduced loads. I emailed them asking about the loads and will post reply when I get it. GL
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DallanC Site Admin
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3571 Location: Utah
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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jeh7mmmag wrote: |
I don't know what has happened to the Hodgon site lately but I can't pull up the reduced loads. I emailed them asking about the loads and will post reply when I get it. GL |
Hodgdon went a little lawyer crazy back in around 2002, and went through a ton of their loads and changed them to be "safer". I have a bunch of manuals covering the 7STW that I own, and for a lot of years their loads where pretty consistant when all of a suddenaround 2002 they reduced it down dramatically. Other recient manuals from other mfgs (Barnes, Nosler) show loads more in common with the older hodgdon info... just fyi.
-DallanC
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gelandangan Super Member
Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 6396 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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Cody,
As a subsonic lover, I agree that you have to approach reduced loads with great caution.
There are a few way to reduce the velocity and thus recoil.
The main one is simply reducing the amount of powder in the cartridge; however as been pointed out by the wildman and Dallan, they ARE dangerous practice.
Other method is to reduce the ignition time by using FAST burning powder. This creates very short and very high spike of pressure in your chamber. This method is somewhat more dangerous than the previous one and must only be approached with utmost caution.
Next method is to extremely slow down the burning of the powders by using the SLOWEST burning powder. Well, the idea is if you have slow burning, the velocity of the projectile have not yet reach its peak when the projectile leave the barrel, and thus you get slower moving projectile. Its like shooting a rifle caliber on a short barrel pistol, you get only a fraction of the max speed. The drawback is usually this method create A LOT of flash and BANG and recoil when the residual powders burns outside the barrel when it sprays out.
Out of the methods above, the one I most often use is the second one ie, to use fast powder.. But I made sure that all the pressure is well below what my gun can handle. I use calculations and educated guesses until I got one that is workable. This is a log drawn process but for me it worth the effort.
there is a good site to see if you want to learn more about these.
www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
They also use fast powder to reduce load..
If you could give me the weight and barrel length of your gun and projectile weight brand and type and the powder that you use; I could calculate for you the recoil, expected pressure for the load and muzzle velocity for it. The more info you give, the better I could work.
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sagebrushsniper Member
Joined: Feb 22, 2008 Posts: 31 Location: central wyoming
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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What better excuse tro buy another gun for her to use , come on fellow grab it and run!!!!!!!!!
_________________ Payback is hell with no due date. If it aint' important enough to wait to do till tommorow it ain't important! |
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1895ss Super Member
Joined: Jul 21, 2005 Posts: 2612 Location: Not Here...!!
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: What can I use as filler? |
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_________________ A cruel truth is much more desirable than a really nice lie.
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