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Primer question
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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laurent
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Primer question Reply with quote

Does anyone here know why only CCI suggest to use magnum primers (CCI250) with Win 760 powder. What about using like every other company standard primer.
I am out of CCI250,but I have fed 215,and standard CCI200.

I have a lot of Win 760 and I would like to use it in my 30-06 and my 308 win.
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

laurent, over the years I have used many pounds of W760 in my 30-06 with standard CCI primers and never had a problem. I don't know why they would suggest using magnum primers other then the fact that you can stuff a lot of W760 into a 30-06 cartridge and still stay within saami specs depending on what bullet you're using of course. Again I never have had a problem with ignition using standard CCI primers and W760.

By the way although W760 works great in my 30-06 I found W748 with standard CCI primers works better then W760 in my brother in-laws 308.

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FALPhil
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

Laurent, here is a relative ranking of commonly available primers by flame heat, from highest to lowest:

1 Fed Match GM215M 6.12

2 Federal 215 LRM 5.69

3 CCI 250 LRM 5.66

4 Winchester WLRM 5.45

5 Remington 9 1/2 LRM 5.09

6 Winchester WLR 4.8

7 Remington 9 1/2 LR 4.75

8 Fed Match GM210M 4.64

9 Federal 210 LR 4.62

10 CCI BR2 4.37

11 CCI 200 LR 4.28

12 KVB 7 LR Russian 4.27

You can see that the CCI Large Rifle primer is cooler than almost all others but the Wolf primer. That does not mean that it will not ingnite the powder. What it means is that the flame characteristics will impact the consistency of the load - in other words, your standard deviation will be wider for certain powders. That is why they recommend the LRM primer in certain situations.
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

FALphil: thanks for the post on relative flame heat. I've been trying to find this ranking of primers. Do you have a source I can look up? If so, I would appreciate the link.

Thanks in advance.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

And handgun primer "relative flame heat" too... Very Happy

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laurent
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

Thanks guys for all the info,this will surely help.
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FALPhil
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

Handloader wrote:
FALphil: thanks for the post on relative flame heat. I've been trying to find this ranking of primers. Do you have a source I can look up? If so, I would appreciate the link.

Thanks in advance.

I think I got this from an article on accurateshooter.com. I tend to collect this kind of stuff in text files on my hard drive. I guess I should probably start copying the URL in the file. In this case, I didn't.
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

I think the combination of cold weather and slow burning powder has something to do with it ??????????????????????????

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jeh7mmmag
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

FAL-me to
FYI Thought I might share this with everyone. Source is of unknown quality.
James

SAAMI specifications on primers and primer pockets per "Sinclair International's Precision Reloading & Shooting Handbook" 10th edition 1999

......................Depth min max diameter min max
small rifle primer pocket .117 .123 .1730 .1745
small pistol primer pocket .117 .123 .1730 .1745
Large rifle primer pocket .125 .132 .2085 .2100
Large pistol primer pocket .117 .123 .2085 .2100

.......................Height min max Diameter min max
Small rifle primers .115 .125 .1745 .1765
small pistol primers .115 .125 .1745 .1765
large rifle primers .123 .133 .2105 .2130
large pistol primers .115 .125 .2100 .2120"

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Last edited by jeh7mmmag on Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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jeh7mmmag
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

Manufacturer Cup Thickness Diameter Height
Small Rifle
CCI 400 .020" .1753" .109"
450 .025" .1750" .113"
BR4 .025" .1755" .109"
Federal 200 .019" .1757" .111"
205M .0225" .1744" .1075"
Remington 6 1/2 .020" .1753" .109"
7 1/2 .025" .1752" .110"
Winchester SR .021" .1750" .109"


Large Rifle
CCI 200 .027" .2112" .118"
250 .027" .2113" .118"
Federal 210 .027" .2120" .117"
215 -- -- --
Remington 9 1/2 .027" .2100" .119"
Winchester LR .027" .2114" .121"
Mag .027" .2114" .121"

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jeh7mmmag
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

Not so! The "corrosive" agent in corrosively primed ammunition was chlorate of potash which has a high affinity for water, not mercury. That's why hot, soapy water works well for cleaning after firing corrosive ammo like the commonly available military surplus stuff -it cuts the salt left behind where a petrochemical solvent might not. Remember the old G.I. bore cleaner in the small bottles? It was made for cleaning corrosive salts as was the original Hoppe's.
Mercuric primers (fulminate of mercury) were not a problem in the days of black powder where the fouling generated by it absorbed most of the metallic mercury, however, they became an issue with smokeless powders. Mercury attacks brass rendering cases useless for reloading. With few exceptions, mercuric primers have been a thing of the past since the 1930's. The last mercuric primer I'm aware of was the old Winchester 8 1/2G, and they became history in 1960. The element of choice in primers is lead styphnate (trinitroresorcinate), and has been for over 75 years.



forums.accuratereloadi.../699106638

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jeh7mmmag
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

FEDERAL,,PRIMER ,,,,
NUMBER,GAUGE,DIAMETER,PRODUCT,BRAND,DESCRIPTION,USAGE
GM100M, , 0.175, Primer, Gold Medal, Small Pistol Match, Standard velocity pistol and revolver
GM150M, , 0.210, Primer, Gold Medal, Large Pistol Match, Standard and magnum pistol and revolvers
GM155M, , 0.210, Primer, Gold Medal, Large Magnum Pistol Match, Magnum revolver
GM200M, , 0.175, Primer, Gold Medal, Small Magnum Pistol Match, High velocity and magnum pistol and revolver
GM205M, , 0.175, Primer, Gold Medal, Small Rifle Match, Small rifle
GM210M, , 0.210, Primer, Gold Medal, Large Rifle Match, Large rifle
GM215M, , 0.210, Primer, Gold Medal, Large Magnum Rifle Match, Magnum rifle
100, , 0.175, Primer, Champion, Small Pistol, Standard velocity pistol and revolver
150, , 0.210, Primer, Champion, Large Pistol, Standard and magnum pistol and revolvers
155, , 0.210, Primer, Champion, Large Magnum Pistol, Magnum revolver
200, , 0.175, Primer, Champion, Small Magnum Pistol, High velocity and magnum pistol and revolver
205, , 0.175, Primer, Champion, Small Rifle, Small rifle
209A, , 0.243, Primer, Champion, Shotshell, 10, 12, 16, 20, 28 and 410 gauge
210, , 0.210, Primer, Champion, Large Rifle, Large rifle
215, , 0.210, Primer, Champion, Large Magnum Rifle, Magnum rifle
12S0, 12, , Wad, Champion, , 7/8 and 1 oz. loads in Gold Medal target shells
12S3, 12, , Wad, Champion, , 1-1/8 oz. loads in Gold Medal target and hunting shells
12S4, 12, , Wad, Champion, , 1-1/4 oz. loads in Gold Medal target and hunting shells
20S1, 20, , Wad, Champion, , 7/8 and 1 oz. in all shells
28S1, 28, , Wad, Champion, , 3/4 oz. loads
410SC, 410, , Wad, Champion, , 1/2 oz. loads (shot cup only)

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jeh7mmmag
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

Notes: Ratings were established by experience and inference from velocity/apparent pressure results and are not scientific. Do not use these charts for load development. Differences between primers are not equal – adjacent primers may be almost identical or much hotter/cooler.

Large Rifle Primers

Fed 215
WLRM
CCI 250
Rem 9 ½ M
WLR
F210
CCI BR2
CCI 200
Rem 9 ½

Small Rifle Primers

Fed 205
Rem 7 ½
WSRM
Fed 200
WSR
CCI BR4
CCI 400
Rem 6 1/2

Rocky Raab

HANDLOADS .COM

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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

laurent wrote:
Does anyone here know why only CCI suggest to use magnum primers (CCI250) with Win 760 powder. What about using like every other company standard primer.
I am out of CCI250,but I have fed 215,and standard CCI200.

I have a lot of Win 760 and I would like to use it in my 30-06 and my 308 win.

Being out of a primer and looking for a cross match (assuming that's what you mean) is not a good idea per good reloading practice...reason being, much can change from one brand to the next.

And much IS different between magnum and standard......

The best advice to heed is to work up a NEW load with any primer change.

Should be simple enough to source another supply of CCI250's and rock on, but if not, and you must switch something, Work Up..............
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Primer question Reply with quote

wildswalker wrote:


The best advice to heed is to work up a NEW load with any primer change.

Should be simple enough to source another supply of CCI250's and rock on, but if not, and you must switch something, Work Up..............

Now Wilds, for once thats a good advice.
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