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Since I "coined" a term on another board ...
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

So we were talking about the military term "E&E" or Escape and Evade, and someone asked the difference between a "Bug Out Bag" and a "E&E" set up.

Anyways point is I mentioned most people at the site would need something else, something I call a S&S bag, or a "Survival and Sustainment" bag. Something to help you get out of the bush if you get lost basically "Survive" the situation, but at the same time "Sustain" yourself so you do not go hungry or thirsty while trying to get out of the situation.

Something like most hunters carry, basic gear that incase they get lost in the woods they can get out and back.

Anyways my little "just in case gear" currently in my Surplus Canadian Issued Buttpack on my belt contains in addition to any other items I carry (except for the tarp as thats a general purpose shelter and the rope):

* 1 Small Tarp, just big enough to be used to make "suitable" shelter.
* Rope.
* Couple spare socks.
* Small Roll of Duck Tape.
* Basic rations for 2-3 days. (Depends on my mood when I pack it may be MRE style hiking food to canned food)
* Topographic Maps of the Area.
* 1QT Canteen
* Fire Starting tools (Vaseline Soaked cotton balls, extra lighter, matches, magnesium fire starter, and a small bottle zippo fluid at times).

Edit: I guess I should now point out, my compass and maps of the area are on my body in a shirt pocket for the maps, and the compass is in its pouch on the belt. Not in the buttpack. Smile

What do you plan for and carry ?? Confused

Dimitri

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OntheLasGallinas
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

If I would have had half of that stuff, my escape and evasion training would have been a picnic. It's good to study all aspects of survival and have plenty of supplies. One part of survival that most people don't think about is how to survive in your home, in case of disaster or insurection.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

Man, Big D. If I was carrying all that stuff I couldn't go very far. Too much stuff just to carry around. Maybe it's flat where you are, but it isn't flat here or the other places I've hunted. It's hard enough to climb these ridges with what I need to hunt and prep the kill let alone carry half the shed and kitchen too. Like Cary I've learned to survive on bare minium and what nature provides...

Your kit looks good though...

If I carry a tarp its usually a nylon "rip stop" poncho.
I carry a length of synthetic line (usually 1/8" X 15').
No food and especially MREs as they are too heavy...Some peanuts, some nutritianal bars or candy bars.
Believe it or not, cotton balls soaked with vasoline just don't work all that well. Melt parifin and saturate pine or fur or any soft wood chips and put them in your Zip-lok bag instead...
I usually don't carry any navigation equipment and just rely on my directional instincts.
Hunting knife.
A small Beck's Classic (German) 12 X 25 binoculars
16 rounds of what ever rifle I'm carrying.
16 rounds of what ever revolver I'm carrying (usually .357 magnum).
Plenty of matches (rubbin' two sticks together is too slow).
Most places that I hunt has small streams or springs so carrying water is not necessary.
Very small stone for my hunting knife...
Toilet paper (I hate leaves).
All of this stuff fits neatly in the pockets of my jeans and coat...
And that's if I plan to go far afield. Usually I'm not that far from camp to worry about carrying all the above stuff, just some of it...

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

Cary,

Yes, being prepared at home is also important. But its easier to prepare at home where you can stockpile all the junk your heart desires. Laughing

My stuff may have made your E&E trip like a picnic, and thats the point of it, to make getting lost for some reason a field day and enjoy it instead of worrying will this 10ft of fishing line in that survival tin I bought will catch me a fish and not break, or worry about finding water when your getting very dehydrated from lack of water etc.

Bushy,

For a young guy like me it doesn't weight me down all that much, it rides comfortably on my belt and padded suspenders. Laughing

Geez, I better not say I got atleast another canteen of water on me and that this one is for a emergency only. Embarassed

Keep the ideas coming though. Being prepared in the event of getting lost in the bush is very important. Smile

Dimitri

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

I carry a zip bag with
- a space blanket
- a magnifier Fresnel lens
- a small surgical razor
- a few water purifier
- a small tube of disinfectant
- a whistle and a small compass
- a sewing kit (contains 2 needles, 1 safety pin, a bunch of thread and a couple of buttons) I get from hotels I visit.
- a short stub of candle
- a small roll of masking tape
- a couple of muesli bars
aand..
like Bushy did, I also carry toilet paper..

All this is fitted inside a 2 liter camel back backpack
Of course I have my 3" blade on my belt and a binocular on my neck

Not sure what designation I should put on these type of bag coz I always carry them out in the bush

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twofifty
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

Dimitri, what size/length rope do you carry, and for what purposes?

I find that rope comes in very handy in most environments, esp. in the mountains and on rivers.

I really like your spare socks .... nothing better than to tuck the feet into nice soft dry ones at mid-day or once camp is reached, while the sweaty ones dry on the back of the pack.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

I carry Paracord, its rated for 550lbs and is useful for setting up shelter with the tarp etc. And I carry 50 feet which is plenty to rig up the tarp. Smile

Dimitri

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

Dimitri,

I used to add a roll of fishing PVC coated stainless steel trace wire in my pack too, they are very strong for their size.
Too bad it is very hard on the knife blade when trying to cut a section for a snare.

I said I used to, because this mate of mine got his hand filleted when trying to pull a heavy log up a ledge with it. Plenty of blood and ruin the trip totally.
Never carry the damned thing again....

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:55 am    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

'Mitri....in a military scenario you will not be able to carry very much at all other than a very small and compact Survival Kit, although most of the items you carry with you anyway have multiple uses. The most important things a soldier carries is his ammunition (could be as much as double basic issue or every magazine full....twice - 120 rounds of 7.62mm or as much as 200 rounds of 5.56mm) plus any other specialist type ammunition like anti armour rockets, claymores, extra machine gun link etc. After the ammunition there is food and water. Any items beyond that is to some extent a bit of a luxury. Like yourself I always carried spare socks and my "housewife" to repair clothing etc for very good reason. I have vivid recollections of ripping the crutch out of my trousers doing "fire and movement" on an exercise one time. That night we went into an ambush. It was VERY cold...4 or 5 deg C, and I had not had time to repair my trousers. To cut a long story short, two rather delicate parts of my anatomy spent some hours "resting" on the cold cold ground.....took me about a week to get over the pain!

I am not aware of any Australian soldier that carries anything like a E&E kit or a "bug out bag"...its a waste of energy carrying it because you carry everything with you if you have to withdraw.

As for when I am out hunting...I carry my usual knives, my camelbak full of water and a few nibbles because I am usually never more than a few kilometres from camp where I have everything I need.

Cheers, Vince

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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

As part of a survival kit I've noticed that nobody mentioned a fresh 9v battery and some real fine steel wool, carried seperated of course, for starting a fire.

The space blanket is good but like Bushy I preffer the poncho.

Also not mentioned is a face camo compac, the kind with a mirror in it. That could come in real handy for signaling a search plane in case you're lost or hurt.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
I am not aware of any Australian soldier that carries anything like a E&E kit or a "bug out bag"...its a waste of energy carrying it because you carry everything with you if you have to withdraw.

They really consist of nothing more then a pouch about 6" by 6" with maps, compass, meal bars to snack on, spare wound dressings and survival items for military members. You can sometimes spot them as they are normally commercially made pouches strapped onto what ever load bearing gear the country they are from issues.

My gear is not meant to be a E&E set up, if it was it would consists of less I realize that. What I was trying to start discussion here is of personal emergency equipment people carry to give others who are unsure of what to carry ideas. Smile

By the way from what I keep getting told from people who went over to the sandbox, 200 rounds of 5.56mm is not enough to load up the magazines as it seems to be that they carry a standard load of 10 30 round magazines, for a total of 300 rounds (280 rounds when using a AR-15), then more ammo to be able to reload the magazines, then a 200 round link for the SAW. Shocked

Dimitri

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

Hey ya 'Mitri.

Out here, our Army...when we had the M16 only carried 10 x 20 rd mags per rifle. For those carrying the SLR L1A1 (FN) they carried 3 x 20 rd mags. One "Front Line" of ammunition was every magazine filled and the M60 MG (1 per 10 man section) was 500 rds. More often than not you carried double "Front Line"....plus the xtras.

But, back to the survival gear. As a civilian, bearing in mind that I am not carrying my house and everything in it on my back anymore, I would probably carry the following:

Knives x several types...usually 3, sometimes a shortened machete
Compass...and map if I had one (my compass has a small magnifying glass on it)
Space blanket,
Some form of fire lighting implement (magnesium/flint stick, waterproof matches etc)
Compact First Aid kit
Heliograph or similar
Whistle or Strobe Light (probably a maybe)
Water...at least 2 litres...better 4 litres....at least a Camelbak
Water sterilisation Tabs and/or a Milbank Filter
Chocolate...I can, if need be...up to a point...live off the land
A shelter...Poncho is good...doubles as a raincoat
10m - 20m of a plaited nylon cord (we call it hootchie cord)
and, of course, I would have my rifle and ammo with me

Maybe's: (but only if I plan on getting lost)
Fishing line
Hooks
Wire for snares
Safety pins
Snacks
Condoms
Spare Clothing...socks, trousers, shirt

Apart from that, without really sitting down and planning a very comprehensive and specific Survival Kit, I can't think of anything else I would probably need. Realistically there are probably a thousand things that could go into a Survival Kit, and each and every situation will dictate what you would need. Even something as simple as moving from the mountains to the plains would dictate a sizeable change in the items you would require. Imagine what you would need going to another country with a similar climate to that you are used to, then factor in a significant climate change.

No such thing as a "standard" Survival Kit.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
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Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

Yup no such thing as standard survival gear but there is common things in any kit. Smile

Dimitri

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hunter63
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

Here is my "belt bag", I carry while hunting, and of course the necessary stuff for the trip



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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Since I "coined" a term on another board ... Reply with quote

Neat pictures in the post now! Very Happy

You know I got the same IFAK pouch on my belt with its plastic insert, except its strictly my first aid kit. Smile

Dimitri

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