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The perfect Hunting Rifle
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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DeadSet
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Joined: Jul 22, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

Hi

Well I have decided to take a closer took at the Tikka T3 Lite or Tikka T3 Tactical in the .300 Win. Mag.

Have any of you guys used it before?
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Wildcatter
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

DeadSet,
You mentioned the 25-06, it is a hell of a caliber, I have the Ackley improved version (blown out straight) on a 98 Mauser action.
I recall an article about a hunter who made one shot kills on grizzly and polar bear as well with this caliber.
For something heavier I have a 30 caliber based on the 8MM Remington magnum case.
But it's easier to blow out the 300 H&H case and I don't need to trim the neck.
It is slightly more powerful than the 300 Weatherby and kicks like a mule.
However a good decelarator pad got the problem solved. I made one shot kills with it on elk and mule deer.
With a well constructed 180 grain bullet, like the Nosler partition, it should be good for any thin skinned game
and perhaps more using 200-220 and even 240 grain bullets.
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robfromaz1977
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

I think the 30-06 with a good 3-9X40 scope is just about perfect. You can load it with a wide variety of bullet weights and hunt everything from mice to moose. I have 2 bolt actions set up this way. One is an old 1903 springfield that has been sporterized a bit and the other is a Winchester model 70 Classic with the Pre-64 type action.
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mikekuzara
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Joined: Sep 13, 2005
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Location: Farson, Wyoming

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

Just a thought here, on thin skinned game I assume you are wanting something that is lite enough to take them down with out punching a grapefruit sized hole through them.

I tend to agree with the first post in a 30-06 or 308. You can vary the bullet weight with factory loads from 120 grains to 220 grains in anything from ballistic tips to Barnes-X bullets.

Since you are looking for light weight, I would tend to shy away from the magnum class. A lot of shooters I have seen develop "magnum flinch"anticipating the recoil from a magnum, especially in a light weight rifle.

I think the light weight Ruger with a 3-9 variable power scope sounds like the ticket. Then go to the range and dial in the scope for the bullet weights you will use.

By the by, a 30-06 180 grain Nosler Ballistic tip sighted 2 inches high at 100 yards is dead on at 200 and only 4 to 6 inches low at 300.

When trying to combine light weight, and the very varied game you mention, I think the 30-06 or 308 fits the bill. Other calibers are better at longer distances or larger game, some are better at shorter distances and smaller game. The 30-06 falls right in the middle.

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Boone
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

Hi,
I'm new to this but I have been a hunter for 40 years and when I was 18 I used a .32 Winchester Special, I hated it , no range! I now hunt with a .308 Model 70 and I love the gun and the caliber. I have never had to use more than one shot on any deer with a .308. If you reload, you have many bullet choices from 110-220. This caliber will take any game on the lower 48 states and it doesn't beat you to death either. I once watched a fellow sight in his .300 Weatherby magnum and he put a pillow between his shoulder and the rifle stock. I personally would not have a gun like that. I have no need for it.
Good Shooting,
Boone
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grimel
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

After further review, have you considered a 338 samba what ever the local version is? Kicks a tad bit harder than a 30-06 on your end while hitting a good bit harder on the critter's end.

I'd still say 30-06, it's accuracy won't drop off until well past the point a 25-06 has enough punch. Or a 308. Or a 7mm Rem Mag. BTW, the 30-06 with Hornady Light Mags is the same as a 300 H&H.

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Handloader
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Joined: Aug 22, 2005
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

In order to kill, a bullet must be able to penetrate the animal enough to get to vital organs and often at less than perfect angles. To do this, the bullet must have enough mass and have stout enough construction and be sent on its way with enough velocity at the terminal ranges hunted.

Barnes TSX and Woodleigh bullets are good examples of construction heavy enough to assure penetration and good expansion. Matching the bullet weight of a properly constructed bullet with the game pursued will lead to choices that will accomplish the job reliably each and every time.

I have yet to hunt Africa (trip scheduled for April 07) and candidly don't know what is best for game there but I have guided elk hunts for a decade and have hunted them for forty plus years. I have seen elk taken with a variety of cartridges but when I have pursued wounded bull elk, the 338WinMag has been my "go to" rifle. Too, I have seen good results with the old 06 IF heavily constructed bullets are used.

Rifles chamber in 338WM need not be heavier than a basic 06 and my guide gun weighs 7lbs 5ozs w/ scope and sling. It is a mere 41" long and is handy to use under all conditions. With all the bulls I have taken or "saved" it has been consistent each and every time. For me, it is the perfect game rifle under all conditions I have encountered for elk, three moose and one caribou plus many deer. I don't remember the recoil of any of those killing shots. Bullets from 160gr to 300gr are available.
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mikekuzara
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Location: Farson, Wyoming

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

The 338 is fine for the heavier game, but if you look at his posts you will see the majority of shots are under 150 yards and include game as small as springbock. I think the 338 is a little much for the smaller stuff, especially at shorter ranges.

I have no idea of what Deadset looks like, but anyone with a small frame is going to be knocked around by the magnums.

I am a firm believer in using enough gun for the job, without going overboard. I am not a single caliber fanatic. I would definitely NOt use a 30-06 for Big Horn Sheep or Mountain Goat because of the ranges involved. Conversly, I would not use a 300 win mag or a 338 on coyotes or bobcats either.

If all I ever hunted were elk and moose I would use a 338 or some other magnum. But since I hunt antelope, white tail, mule deer, and elk with the same rifle, I use a 30-06. 165 grain nosler partitions for the whitetail and antelope, and 180 grain partitions for the mule deer and elk. I know that I need to bring the scope 4 clicks down and 2 clicks to the left when I go from the 180 grain to the 165 and vice versa.

In 25 years of hunting with this set up I have only had to take a second shot on one elk and not a single deer or antelope. Considering I average about 3 to 5 deer a season and an antelope and elk about every other year, obviously it works. If I were 20 pounds lighter or heavier, or 6 inches taller or shorter, I would probably be using something else.

The bottom line is Deadset, use a caliber you can comfortably handle the recoil of for your height and weight in a light weight rifle. Minimum is probably .30 caliber/7mm class. Make sure it is comfortable enough to do a LOT of practise with and learn that gun like the back of your own hand. Know what it will do with a variety of bullet weights and ranges.

If you handload you can customize loads, if not check the various manufacturers web sites and find out what they offer in the calibers you are looking at. See what the velocities and ft/lbs of energy they deliver and do some comparison shopping. Are you looking at enough gun or too much or not enough?

The perfect gun for you may not be the perfect gun for me or anyone else.

Good luck.

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Handloader
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Joined: Aug 22, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

mikekuzara: you make some valid points, most of which I agree with. My comments were made based on Deadset's self description of tracking wounded game, some of which include the larger plains game, and the need to put these thick hide animals down decisively.

Further, he states that the 338WM rifles are a little too heavy, but doesn't elaborate regarding their recoil. While we may agree that recoil is a subjective thing, my experience is most riflemen and hunters never recall the recoil in a hunting situation if they have practiced a bit as you suggest. In a subsequent post Deadset shows interest in a 300WM in a Tikka Lite, which IMO would be another good choice and coincides with your suggestion of a 30 caliber. My impression is that Deadset isn't too recoil shy.

Several of our customers have hunted Africa, many several times. The 338WM is the choice of several for African plains game and they report superb results when using the Woodleigh and TSX bullets, something I would like to find out for myself!

I hope Deadset will post when he decides which cartridge is right for him. Best of all, I hope we will all have the opportunity to head down his way and engage the beasts of the Dark Continent.
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Gil Martin
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Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:20 am    Post subject: Re: The perfect hunting rifle Reply with quote

wildcatter,
Welcome to the Forum!

This is an interesting topic and I agree with you good folks. I have been looking for the perfect hunting rifle for decades. To date, that has resulted in a safe full of rifles in various action and calibers. It depends. In the tight cover I prefer a lever action in .30/30, .35, .348, .444 or .45/70. In more open country I prefer a .270, .280, .30-06 or 8mm. Now I am about to build a .338-06. So it depends. All the best...
Gil

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akroxy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

"The perfect Hunting Rifle" is one that fits you comfortably and you can shoot accarately. I once bought a Browning A-bolt in .375 H&H mag because when I put it to my shoulder in the gun shop, I fell in love. It had an obvious different feel than any other gun I've shouldered. Still have it today and have learned to shoot it accarately. Now the perfect hunting rifle in combination w/ the perfect hunting cartrige is up for debate. I curently and have for several years, believe the .300 Win Mag in a rifle you are comfortable w/ is indeed the perfect all round hunting rifle. The perfect hunting rifle is truely subjective but the perfect hunting cartrige is objective to some degree.

Later, D
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grimel
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

Do you know what a 338 samba or sabi (how ever it's spelled) is? Overkill and heavy for his conditions it isn't (as a tracker)l

And I still like a 30-06 (or 308) for everything not dangerous to my health.

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with seven hundred dollars and his thirty ought six.

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Blaine
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the 270 Win for non-dangerous game. I think Jack O'Conner had it right. The 270 is as flat shooting as a 308 and 30-06, yet the mild recoil is suited to more hunters than the 300 + mags. The 270 has been my "go-to" gun for the last 20+years and I have never been disappointed with it. I've never lost a deer no matter what angle it was shot. I usually use 150 gr Nosler Partitions and I don't have much meat loss and I never find the bullet. I do agree with others, though, that the best caliber/rifle is the one you shoot best and are totally comfortable with. I was just surprised that the 270 wasn't mentioned since it is always in the top 10 for ammo/gun/reloading dies sales every year.

Blaine

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

I agree with Blaine on the .270 (a friend of mine uses one against deer and smaller game with excellent results). However, as my friend found out, it is a bit short when it comes to larger game (my friend also has a .30-06 in his arsenal). Yes I know...Jack 'Oconner used it against every animal on the planet. We must remember that he was an exceptional shot and maybe a bit excentric and took a lot of chances with a small bullet just to prove that the .270 was God's gift and was very lucky. All around, when you can't afford another rifle and can have only one rifle....30-06 Springfield. .270...Excellent rifle cartradge.
Someone said that the best rifle cartradge was the one you liked best and could shoot the best. I do agree with that except my favorite rifle is a Winchester .30-30. And I can shoot the best with it, but I wouldn't call it the best hunting round, by no means. It, however, has its place...

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RPM1031
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: The perfect Hunting Rifle Reply with quote

I know my brother traded in his 30-06 for a 7mm Rem mag and took it to South Africa on his first hunt there. He trained some of their bomb techs and got invited over. I think he took his kudu and gemsbuck along with a number of smaller animals. The 2nd trip he took a .375 H&H and I think that is what he took the eland with. Some were around 300 yd shots. Naturally the H&H can really get your attention when you shoot it. The outfitters I have talked to from Canada seem to like the .338 these days.

No first hand knowledge though.

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