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Do You carry guns in church?
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Vince
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Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

sniper wrote:
Vince: I totally agree with Bushy. Don't feel bad you don't understand the U.S. Constitution, or Laws. There are some of us that do not, or will not attempt to understand. I don't understand it a s I feel I should.

Some do have valid reasons for opposing guns.

But,...for better or for worse...together... and it is mostly good. She even relented and gave me a beautiful rifle for a retirement present, and encourages me in my shooting... most of the time...

The problems we face are many: The "interpretation" of the Constitution by the Courts, and attorneys.

We have in place "enhancements" of sentence mandated by Federal Law, but that can backfire. There is some hope, though. The recent Supreme Court decision to hear a case contending the Washington D.C. handgun ban is unconstitutional, as well as the increased number of states that allow Concealed Weapons Permits, and the credence given to many of the studies showing that guns don't commit crimes.

The biggest problem we face is APATHY...those who don't care what is happening...until they are directly affected, then all they do is gripe about the way it used to be.

Oh Boy! I didn' t reallly mean for this to become a book. I guess I just needed to get it off my chest. Thanks, guys!

Mate...first up, let me offer my sincere heartfelt sympathy for the troubles that your wife, yourself and your son have endured with his problems. I have been there with one of my daughters suffering with post natal depression, so I understand fully how you feel. Also, it would have been difficult for you to share this with us...it is a true sign of trust and friendship. For that I thank you Sir.

Laws are written for the legal profession...not the everyday citizens. They are difficult to read, decifer and understand, so don't feel bad about not being able to understand them. It is this that allows that "interpretation" to slip in. As they say..."one man's trash is another man's treasure"...the same phrase in a law can be used differently by different attorneys. The "enhancements" make matters even worse. I'm sure that this was never the intention of the original proposor of the enhancement, but attorneys being what they are twist and tie everything in their favour.

You are right about apathy. It is human nature to back away from something that doesn't directly affect the individual at that time....doesn't seem to matter that it will have an effect down the track. The average "Joe" is reactive whereas the antis are proactive. All too often you hear people say "I'll cross that bridge when I come to it". It is this that allows the antis to get ahead of the firearms owners in their attempts to disarm the nation.

Your post is a good one mate. It brings to the fore a number of good points...it also shows the other side of the coin with respect to your wife's feelings. She is obviously a strong lady to be able to support both you and your son...possibly to her own detriment. She has my respect mate.

Good luck with your son mate...hopefully he can overcome his problems soon.

Cheers, Vince

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Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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K.W.
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Joined: Mar 19, 2007
Posts: 348
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

Mr Handloader, Hello, hello, how are you...........Well K.W., I would surely want to have a firearm if I lived in Finland. That is if Wikipedia's infomation is correct. As follows:

- Finland reports 101 crimes per 1,000 population, the third highest in the world.

- Finland has the highest homicide rate in Western Europe.

- There are 1.8 million registered firearms in Finland and hundreds of thousands unregistered. It has the 4th highest number of guns per capita in the world.

- Finland averages 29,800 assaults per year.

- Finland leads Western Europe in alcoholism and suicide.

IOWs, it ain't paradise and there are a lot of homicides, rapes and assalts in Finland that could be reduced, IMO, if everyone did have access to handguns. Hey -- didn't Russia try to invade a few times?

FWIW, did you know that the main reason Japan decided not to attack mainland USA, WWII, was the private ownership of guns?[/quote]............
Wikipedias info; pure shit.
In Finland 5.200.000 people.
116.000 legal gun owners
650.000 legal guns
30.-32.000 illegal guns
Averace mean 120 people / yaer criminaly deaths ( 8 with legal guns, 11 with illegal guns)
Finland leads Western Eurpe suicide, because peopla e.g take vodka and put the bullet in own head and don´t go to market, -church, - scool, -church...and start to shoot like they do in US....i mean in other country.
You make me to laugh: Japan decited not attack mainland USA was the private ownership of guns. I like those joke.
How aboat Finland - Sovjet Union international match was not so bad for Finland. Nobody occupied my country. Now Russia is our friend. We have no enemy in whole world. Think abaot that. There are no terrorist in Finland. Our president is pacifism activist. It is mayby too much for me.
My father was USA-citicen from Telluride Colorado. My sister´s family lives in Florida. I have been many times in USA. I know yours situation. I live happier in my country than in USA. Mayby you must to carry guns. But nobody ordinary citizen in Finland....he or she must to be shithead
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

No school shootings ??

www.cbc.ca/world/story...oting.html

Pretty recent I'd say with a date of November 7th 2007.

Dimitri

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K.W.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

Jep Dimitri. It was first time i know. I am 70-old. I was writing average mean. The time limited was 5 year ( 1 time per 5 year= 0,2 scool shooting /year. And it was not suicite, it was sick student. I was writing suicites. In Finland dies average mean 120 people by crimes. This scool shooting belongs to this number).
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

KW,

We do not have as bad of a crime rate like some countries but let me tell you, if we by a act of God got the right to carry handguns back, I'd get my permit the same day and buy a pistol the day after.

Is it cause I want to shoot someone ?? Nope.
Is it cause I want to feel tough with a handgun on me ?? Nope.
Is it cause I know if I end up only having to use it once in my lifetime it will save my or someone elses life and make carrying a 5 pound huck of metal on me worth it as well as the costs of ammo and the like to practice with ?? You bet!

Dimitri

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

I think Dimitri just exposed you KW.

Now you can open up, and just say that you don't like us heathen Americans, and quit being a troll around here.
Anything that we say to you, will be rebutted by half truths, or stories about wonderful Finland the way you see it.
Finland is no player in World Affairs, and, if I remember my history, never pushed against Hitler and the Nazi's very hard either.
And now, we want a USA and Canada like Finland??
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL Werd Werd Werd

My Grandmother came from Stavangar Norway, and had no use for Finland, or its citizens.
Now I see why Grandma saw it that way.

Eric Evil or Very Mad

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Last edited by ElyBoy on Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

Ely,

He just strongly feels no need to carry firearms, its his right to think how ever he feels like it. This is a hunting site not a CCW site after all. Smile

Its like telling a Canadian that there is a high crime rate in Canada and people should have the right to carry a firearm to protect themselves, most of them will think your nuts. "Its a big city problem not a Canada problem". And yet when it comes right down to it isn't a "big city problem" or a "person was mentally ill problem" or a "He was a criminal problem" when they decide to attack and commit crimes aginst others it IS your problem and it IS everyone around the acts problem to stop it before people get hurt.

Kinda like if your walking down the street and you hear screaming from the alleyway which sounds like a girl is getting raped, its your RESPONSIBILITY as a decent human being to stop the attack right then and there, and not call the police or pretend you heard nothing. Cause if you do nothing or pretend to do something like "waiting for the cops to come" in my opinion your no better then the scum thats doing the deed.

Dimitri

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K.W.
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Joined: Mar 19, 2007
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Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

ElyBoy wrote:
I think the Dimitri just exposed you KW.

Now you can open up, and just say that you don't like us heathen Americans, and quit being a troll around here.
Anything that we say to you, will be rebutted by half truths, or wonderful Finland the way you see it.

My Grandmother came from Stavanger Norway, and had no use for Finland.
It must have been their attitude that caused Grandma to think that way.


Eric Evil or Very Mad

Sorry Eric, nobody exposed me.
My God says nothing abaot guns. My wife says something. That why I have only 14 guns.
I know the truths , because live in Finland and was to day reading those things from newspaper. I shall to send it to you if you like.
My country never helped nazis, they was helping my contry, because USA didn´t. Sovjet Union was little bit "stronger" than Finland. You must to read something abaot "Winter War". I was not to tell, that Finland is wonderful. Why your grandmother left from Norvay. No use for Finland was the reason! That is ok for me. Kauko with smile.


Last edited by K.W. on Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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ElyBoy
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Joined: Apr 04, 2006
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Location: Forest Lake Minnesota

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

KW,
I just get tired of reading "Yea, Buts" from you, every time that you come out with a statement, and are called out by one of the guys for making a statement that isn't honest.

Say it straight around here.
The good or the bad, and wether I agree, or disagree, I can respect a guys point.

When D. called you out this morning, on you last post, it reminded me of my Grandma Rissa, complaining when I was a kid, what I have seen from you.

Sorry if I offended you, but I "calls em as I sees em"

Eric

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K.W.
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Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

Sorry Eric. i din´t understud "yea buts" and "calls em as i sees em". I
have not yet dictionary.
You are already tired of reading. You must think what are eating. You need more vegetables, or you miss with you gun when tragheads.......you know what i am thinking.
I can´t write or read this language. Can we please use Swedish, Germany, Norwegian or Finnish?
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

O K gentlemen...Back to your prospective corners...I would amagine that the news media in Finland, Canada and America are about the same, liberal left wing. And I know that statistics can be manipulated to satisfy any groups intent. Because of the media K. W. may not have all the information at his hands...

K. W. ....70...(good to know I'm not the oldest one here Very Happy )...I hope your health is good and you live a long time... Very Happy

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K.W.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

Ok mr Bushmaster. You have right. Kauko
Ps, please; my information was from Finland Police Press Officer. There was "mercy year" in my country. People gave illegal guns to police with no punishment. After that scool shooting it is very hard to have eg 9mm hand gun. If you are "first clas citizen". you can to have .22LR handgun for first pistol.Early times people was telling many hundredsthousends of illegal guns. That was only story. Years ago i was lucking for illegal Mosin Nagant. No luck. Kauko
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

KW,

Just cause they cannot be found by normal means doesn't mean they are not around.

Handguns are 15$ rentals in Toronto with a loaded magazine available from your neighborhood gang member according to police a while back.

And we have gun control, gun registration and gun owners not legally being able to go to the range with a handgun or other "restricted" firearm without letting the cops know that they are going to the range in advance.

The number of handguns, submachine guns, early German Assault rifles hidden in attics cannot be counted and will probably never be known in Canada just how many were brought back after the war they are found one or 2 here and there by the family of the veterans after they pass away and make headline news.

Never mind they are missing some 13 MILLION firearms known to exist in the hands of firearm owners that simply never registered them in the new system. Wink

By the way this is a REGISTRED Soldering Iron owned by a individual in Canada. Just to show one of MANY examples of how messed up the system is.



Dimitri

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K.W.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

I am ashamed, there is so little guns in Finland. It is the truth. They keep me crazy, because have 14 guns. There is only a few fellows going to shoot in place i live. (15.000 people). I am very lucky because behind me are thre shooting places. They are free of charge.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Do You carry guns in church? Reply with quote

14 guns! I'd need atleast another gun safe to hold that many! Shocked

Dimitri

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