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Entrapment?????
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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:43 am    Post subject: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

With the recent Crane posting it made me think about how one year the DNR and County LEO's took poacher's off the street.

Now 14 years ago when i was scouting on some state land i had found a nice spot along a half cut corn field, with high traffic to hunt. It was pretty remote but with no access to from the main road (which was in sight), and really hard to get to from the back road so i decided to put up my stand and come back every couple of days to check on it and make sure everything was still ok.

Just as bow season was starting i noticed a 'mechanical' 8 pt. deer around 150 yards directly infront of my stand and bait pile with it's tail flipping up, and even on a short track to make it move! So i thought someone moved in closely to my area and figured now that opening day was two day's away i'm not changing so i stayed.

Opening day i had quickly shot a big doe so i took that home and got ready for a few bucks i had seen come into the area. About a week later, i still saw nobody around the mechanical deer but it had helped me because every couple of days a nice 8 pointer would come over to check it out, then come over to my 100 yard bait pile, but the wind was not in my favor those days so i had to pass.

Then, Sunday Oct 13 1991, i had gotten to my stand a few hours early and noticed a few people near the mechanical deer then quickly take off? An hour later i saw a spot light from the road, and with just enough light to see with my binoculars,(and driving under a street light) i saw a white and blue truck on the road that was shining a spotlight into the corn field and then stop. The three guys in the truck were shining the mechanical deer and shot it with their rifle, getting a direct hit on the mechanical deer and shot twice more. After realizing it was fake they hurried and 'TRIED' to get out but were now approached by gun point, and by DNR and LEO vehicles.

After these guys were arrested only minutes later when i was getting out of my stand to tell them what i had seen, as soon as i got down i looked up and two of the CO's walking toward me and asked me if i had seen anything. Of course i said everything so they took my statement and later i had found out all three were involved in poaching for a few years so they set up the mechanical deer in my area because it was the hardest hit. All three were cought with 'freezers' full venison as well! Ultimately they were charged with:

Poaching, Illeagal discharge of a firearm, Hunting before hours, Illeagal discharge of firearm durring bow season, reckless and human endangerment, and so on (because i forget all the charges). But their sentences were upto 20 years in prison and their lawyers got it down to 3 years in prison, $50,000 each in restitution and ten year suspention of sportsman privileges. The funny thing is that the local paper just listed it as "Poachers Caught and Arrested" and had a short 3 sentence article.

So what do you guy's think, was it entrapment? I really don't think so,
but i do think they got what they deserve!
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

No I dont view this as entrapment per say. Its a good tool to catch those who poach.


-DallanC
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tbox61
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

10ring,
I agree with you, not entrapment, but gets the unethical slobs out of the picture. Here in Kansas, the use the RoboDeer, (that's what they call it), just as you described it. It is always used on private land, with the permission of the landowner, to discourage road hunting and hunting without permission.

This is a non-issue for ethical hunters. My nephew is a CO in Missouri, and prior to that was a CO here in Kansas. I don't believe he draws his firearm when approaching the would-be poachers. He videos the goings on, and most of the time he says that the people are embarrassed and feel very stupid when caught.

If this keeps a poacher from taking a trophy whitetail buck illegally, thus depriving you and I from taking it fair chase, I am all for it!
Tim

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

Howdy I don't think it's entrapment at all.

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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

OOPS :| I had forgotten to mention that they were claiming entrapment. Sad

Please forgive me. Crying or Very sad Mr. Green
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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

515034s10ring wrote:
OOPS :| I had forgotten to mention that they were claiming entrapment. Sad

Please forgive me. Crying or Very sad Mr. Green

Howdy I guess we can let this one slide Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Handloader
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

We have female police officers posing as prostitutes, undercover guys setting up drug buys, decoy cars with keys left in the ignition and photo radar at intersections for red light runners. Some nearby communities use photo radar for speeders. I see it in the same light as the robodeer and support the use of each and every one of these methods and candidly I don't care if it is entrapment or not.

Other societies have more carefully defined mores about individual discretion. I recall loosing my wallet in a "3rd World" country. It had over $400 US and about half that in local currency. In total, it represented about a three month income for most people in that area. When I returned about an hour later to the restaurant where I presumed I had lost it, it was sitting in plain view on the counter. All the money was there. It was found by another customer that had given it to the waitress. And, no, she wouldn't take a reward.

In Phoenix we lock our doors. Car doors, home doors, fence gates, business doors. Yet, I have lived in some areas of our country where people leave routinely the keys in their cars, the homes unlocked and burglar alarms are rare. Which is one more reason I will leave this big Valley as soon as practical.
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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

shrpshtrjoe wrote:
515034s10ring wrote:
OOPS :| I had forgotten to mention that they were claiming entrapment. Sad

Please forgive me. Crying or Very sad Mr. Green

Howdy I guess we can let this one slide Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Thanks Very Happy
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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

Handloader wrote:

In Phoenix we lock our doors. Car doors, home doors, fence gates, business doors. Yet, I have lived in some areas of our country where people leave routinely the keys in their cars, the homes unlocked and burglar alarms are rare. Which is one more reason I will leave this big Valley as soon as practical.

That is a very good point because i 'used' to live in an apartment that was in a good area, which we all would do for one another and the workers were cool to, but we locked everything up still. Until my apartment was broken into and i used a method to stop an imminent threat and they tried charging me for repairs. Then i was told i "HAD" to move because of some clause in the lease that 'illeagal' explosives were not permitted on the premises as is the storage of firearms. To bad none of my weapons were 'illeagal'! Laughing

But all came out good because the managers and holding company had to pay for my move and eat the early termination of my lease as well as pay for legal fees, for in my lease agreement it stated "we shall provide a quiet, safe and well lit enviroment" and safe would then be classified as 'having on grounds security' in this case, which they didn't. Some lawyers are good. Shocked Laughing
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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

Nope, not entrapment. I have to ask, was the mechanical deer a total loss? All the best...
Gil

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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

A few dents, no through shots so i'd believe it's plate steel.
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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

No entrapment , I dont believe .. If it gets rid of the trash then so be it .. We are lucky in that all the game wardens I know and have dealings with are good people , not out to try to get you ..
They know there is good and bad , but , I have seen some who think all are bad ..
Jack

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mikekuzara
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

Entrapment would be an under cover game warden sitting in the truck and encouraging the poacher to take the shot, after driving him there.

Shooting at what they thought was a real deer on property they did not have acces to , is like saying that if someone walks into your backyard and takes your lawn furniture, it was entrapment. They had no legal right to be where they were, doing what they were doing. i just wish all states had the confiscation laws Wyoming has. These guys would have lost their spotlight, guns, and truck on top of everything else.

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Flint54
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

Cheers There is no way that this could be viewed as Entrapment. The individuals made the decision to do and complete something illegal on their own accord. There was no influence to their consious decision to perform an illegal act. They on their own used a light that was illegal, they stopped, aimed and fired their weapons: A) After legal hours! B) From a road/Right of way! C) With a spotlight!

As far a COs having weapons drawn, that is textbook in any LE Training. Any time an arrest is to be conducted and the presence of a firearm is known any LE Officer who doesn't have their weapon at the ready is not following procedure and is looking for a short life.

I just wish that more could be done in catching poachers, not only do they take our game but give us all a bad name as those who want to abolish hunting and take away our firearms do not see any diffrence between us!

Here is to the poachers! Pistol Shooting Sniper Whip Shooting Bonk Flame
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grimel
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:49 am    Post subject: Re: Entrapment????? Reply with quote

Entrapment? Let me put it this way, the TN specific deer hunting board I play on has bought 3 robo deer for TWRA to help catch the $*% $%*& #$(**# poachers.

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