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Winchester Primers WLR
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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5GenTexan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:21 pm    Post subject: Winchester Primers WLR Reply with quote

I am new to this site and have some questions. I just bought two boxes of Winchester primers (WLR) and I am attempting to reload some once fired 25-06 Winchester cases. The new primers almost fall into the primer holes!! They will fall in to about .015 high then slightly press in the rest of the way. Has anyone had this problem before? Will they be safe to shoot this way? I have a few old Federal 210 primers and they feel as they press in all the way. I use a RCBS hand priming tool. I cannot tell any difference in the diameters between the two as I only have a dial caliper to measure with. Any help and/or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Tilmon - Fifth Generation Texan
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tbox61
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Primers WLR Reply with quote

Tilmon,
First of all, welcome to the site!

Secondly, sounds like you have brass that had a previous pressure problem, or maybe still, a bad batch of primers. Hopefully, you have not reprimed all of the brass. If it were me, I would buy new brass and see if the primers fit as they should. If it is not a primer problem, I would get rid of all of the once fired brass and go with the new.

If it turns out to be bad brass and you continue, you might be setting yourself up for some potential nasty gas leakage right back towards your face and eyes!

I would not take the chance, just my humble .02.
Tim

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Primers WLR Reply with quote

Howdy Welcome to the site Tilmon sit and stay a while. I would agree with Tim I would try some new brass and/or new primers and see how they seat, better safe than sorry.

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sniper
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Primers WLR Reply with quote

Tilmon: Hello, and Welcome!

How much has your 25-06 brass been reloaded, and what level of loads have been used?

Do you use commercial 25-06 brass or form your own from 30-06 brass? If so, are they military or commercial cases?

It seems to me that if it was a brass/pressure problem, that even different brands of primers will fit about the same, with only minor differences in looseness.

Manufacturing tolerances can change, and you may have an out of spec. batch of primers. Or they could be perfectly good, just slightly smaller than another brand, although there shouldn't be that much variance between brands. That is what can be so frustrating about reloading--sometimes there just aren't any easy answers.

Try cheap and simple first. Buy a new box of each brand of primer you use, and maybe one other brand, just to be sure. Even go to a different store for the purchase, if it is not too much trouble. See if the new box/lot will solve the fit problem. If not, buy a new box of brass, and see if the problem persists, although I can't imagine it would, using new brass.

If it is the brass, you are allowed one sob, then throw all of it away that is beyond its safe, useful life, and replace it. Let us know what you find out.

Good luck with your search, and be safe.
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Primers WLR Reply with quote

I agree with the above posts. About ten years ago I had a bad batch of remington primers, they were too loose in the primer pockets of new, never fired brass and I have never used a Rem primer since.

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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Primers WLR Reply with quote

I concur with the general consensus here .. Better safe than sorry ..
Jack

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5GenTexan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Primers WLR Reply with quote

Thanks all for you help and input. In view of safety I will purchase new brass.

I have been doing some investigating and remembering (and that is a hard task for me)!

I purchased new Winchester cases and loaded them last year. They have been loaded two times. The first time I loaded them was only to form the cases to my gun and then neck sized them for my hunting load.

For my hunting load I used Federal 210 primers, 50.5grns of IMR4350, topped off with a Nosler 100grn Partition bullet. I remember the primers being very hard to seat with my Redding press. (The reason I later bought the RCBS hand priming tool) The Nosler reloading manual #4 gives 51grns of IMR 4350 as the max load. I remember starting at 49grns and working up to 50.5grns until the primer started to show some signs of pressure.

I have a few of the Federal 210 primers I used last year and I comparied the diameters with the new Winchester WLR primers using my dial calipers and a 10x loop to see the dial up close. The Federal 210 primers were nearly .001 in. (maybe .0008 or so as far as I could tell) larger in diameter. Also, I have some CCI benchrest primers and they are the same diameter as the Winchester. They also fall into the primer pocket.

I have one case that came with the new lot that I didn't use because of a dent in the side of it. I just primed it with the new Winchester primer and it seated as it should have.

I believe I could have a double problem though - Oversize primers and maybe excessive pressure.

Do you all think the Federal primers being as large as they are could have enlarged the primer pockets to begin with?

And should I back off from the 50.5grns as it did cause the primers to flatten some?

I'm going to play it safe and purchase new cases. I just don't want to make these mistakes again. It kinda hits my pocket book a little hard!!

Your thoughts and insights on this will be greatly appreciated. What a great website. The very best to all of you.

Tilmon
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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Primers WLR Reply with quote

Well for the most part I use feds only so I'd be no help on that issue , but I wouldnt think so .. Realizing that every gun is different as to a "max load " , but still wouldnt think so ..
Flattened primers are to me a hard call to make , my Ruger One 375 flattens them every time no matter the load ..
Jack

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sniper
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Primers WLR Reply with quote

5GenTexan wrote:


I believe I could have a double problem though - Oversize primers and maybe excessive pressure.

Do you all think the Federal primers being as large as they are could have enlarged the primer pockets to begin with?

And should I back off from the 50.5grns as it did cause the primers to flatten some?

Tilmon

Could be---that 's what's FUN about this Fine and Pleasant Madness called handloading, isn't it? Confused It looks like you are narrowing the possibilities down really well.

My opinion; that .001 or less difference in diameter shouldn't cause all that much difference in fit, and should not expand a properly manufactured primer pocket.

A human hair is about .003", and an oversize primer plus an expanded primer pocket might provide an accidental better fit. Having said that, I have used Federales, CCIs, and WLR primers for years, always with Winchester brass, with no hint of a fit problem, even after multiple loadings.

New brass is a good idea, and the fact that your cases have been reloaded only twice and have developed loose primer pockets indicate that you may be running too high a pressure.

Primer flattening is one of the least reliable signs of high pressure, unless you pierce or crater the primer cup, or the primer shows no radius on the edge, or swages out to fill the primer pocket completely, but it IS something to be aware of.

What Groovyjack said! Most primers, even in factory loads will flatten to some degree, because the cups are made of a softer material. But, dropping the load is always a good thing, especially if you feel uneasy. .5 gr, or even a full grain of powder less will not make all that much difference, and a deer will not know if it is hit by a 100gr bullet at 2950 or 2900 fps.

Read the article on optimal long range loads somewhere else on the forum. It is a goodness. Thank you, Dallan!
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