HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 758
BOT: 2
Total: 760
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Home
06: Forums
07: Home
08: Forums
09: Photo Albums
10: Your Account
11: Forums
12: Your Account
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Home
16: Your Account
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Photo Albums
23: Your Account
24: Forums
25: Home
26: Forums
27: Home
28: Forums
29: Photo Albums
30: Your Account
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Your Account
39: Forums
40: Photo Albums
41: Forums
42: Photo Albums
43: Forums
44: Photo Albums
45: Your Account
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Photo Albums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Your Account
52: Home
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Your Account
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Your Account
68: Forums
69: Photo Albums
70: Home
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Statistics
74: Home
75: Your Account
76: Photo Albums
77: Photo Albums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Photo Albums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Your Account
87: Photo Albums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: News
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Your Account
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Your Account
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Your Account
103: Forums
104: Your Account
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Your Account
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Your Account
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Home
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Photo Albums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Your Account
131: Your Account
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Your Account
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Your Account
138: Forums
139: Photo Albums
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Your Account
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Photo Albums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Photo Albums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Your Account
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Home
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Your Account
161: Your Account
162: Your Account
163: Home
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Home
167: Forums
168: Your Account
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: Home
172: Photo Albums
173: Forums
174: Your Account
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Home
178: Forums
179: Your Account
180: Forums
181: Home
182: Forums
183: Your Account
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Home
187: Photo Albums
188: Your Account
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Your Account
192: Home
193: Home
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Photo Albums
202: Home
203: Your Account
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Your Account
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Photo Albums
214: Home
215: Photo Albums
216: Your Account
217: Forums
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Your Account
222: Forums
223: Your Account
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Photo Albums
233: Your Account
234: Forums
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Photo Albums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Photo Albums
246: Your Account
247: Forums
248: Your Account
249: Your Account
250: Home
251: Home
252: Photo Albums
253: Forums
254: Your Account
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Your Account
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Photo Albums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Forums
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Your Account
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Photo Albums
277: Forums
278: Forums
279: Your Account
280: Home
281: Photo Albums
282: Your Account
283: Home
284: Forums
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Your Account
288: Your Account
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Your Account
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Forums
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Forums
307: Your Account
308: Home
309: Home
310: Your Account
311: Forums
312: Forums
313: Forums
314: Forums
315: Photo Albums
316: Forums
317: Your Account
318: Forums
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Forums
322: Home
323: Your Account
324: Home
325: Photo Albums
326: Your Account
327: Forums
328: Your Account
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Forums
332: Forums
333: Your Account
334: Forums
335: Your Account
336: Your Account
337: Forums
338: Forums
339: Forums
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Home
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Forums
347: Forums
348: Home
349: Home
350: Forums
351: Forums
352: Forums
353: Home
354: Forums
355: Forums
356: Forums
357: Forums
358: Forums
359: Forums
360: Forums
361: Forums
362: Forums
363: Your Account
364: Photo Albums
365: Forums
366: Your Account
367: Your Account
368: Your Account
369: Forums
370: Forums
371: Forums
372: Your Account
373: Forums
374: Forums
375: Forums
376: Forums
377: Your Account
378: Photo Albums
379: Your Account
380: Forums
381: Statistics
382: Forums
383: Forums
384: Forums
385: Forums
386: Photo Albums
387: Photo Albums
388: Home
389: Forums
390: Forums
391: Your Account
392: Your Account
393: Forums
394: Forums
395: Your Account
396: Your Account
397: Home
398: Forums
399: Home
400: Forums
401: Forums
402: Forums
403: Forums
404: Forums
405: Forums
406: Your Account
407: Forums
408: Forums
409: Your Account
410: Your Account
411: Your Account
412: Forums
413: Your Account
414: Forums
415: Forums
416: Forums
417: Forums
418: Forums
419: Forums
420: Home
421: Forums
422: Forums
423: Forums
424: Forums
425: Your Account
426: Forums
427: Your Account
428: Forums
429: Photo Albums
430: News
431: Forums
432: Forums
433: Forums
434: Forums
435: Photo Albums
436: Forums
437: Forums
438: Your Account
439: Forums
440: Forums
441: Forums
442: Your Account
443: Photo Albums
444: Forums
445: Forums
446: Forums
447: Forums
448: Photo Albums
449: Forums
450: Forums
451: Forums
452: Your Account
453: Statistics
454: Photo Albums
455: Forums
456: Forums
457: Forums
458: Forums
459: Forums
460: Forums
461: Your Account
462: Forums
463: Forums
464: Forums
465: Forums
466: Your Account
467: Forums
468: Forums
469: Your Account
470: Forums
471: Forums
472: Home
473: Forums
474: Your Account
475: Forums
476: Home
477: Your Account
478: Forums
479: Photo Albums
480: Home
481: Forums
482: Photo Albums
483: Photo Albums
484: Forums
485: Forums
486: Photo Albums
487: Your Account
488: Forums
489: Photo Albums
490: Photo Albums
491: Forums
492: Forums
493: Forums
494: Home
495: Forums
496: Statistics
497: Home
498: Forums
499: Forums
500: Forums
501: Forums
502: Photo Albums
503: Photo Albums
504: Your Account
505: Forums
506: Forums
507: Forums
508: Forums
509: Forums
510: Forums
511: Photo Albums
512: Forums
513: Forums
514: Forums
515: Forums
516: Photo Albums
517: Forums
518: Your Account
519: Forums
520: Forums
521: Forums
522: Home
523: Photo Albums
524: Your Account
525: Forums
526: Your Account
527: Forums
528: Forums
529: Forums
530: Forums
531: Forums
532: Forums
533: Photo Albums
534: Forums
535: Forums
536: Forums
537: Photo Albums
538: Forums
539: Home
540: Your Account
541: Forums
542: Forums
543: Your Account
544: Home
545: Forums
546: Your Account
547: Forums
548: Photo Albums
549: Forums
550: Forums
551: Forums
552: Forums
553: Forums
554: Your Account
555: Your Account
556: Forums
557: Forums
558: Forums
559: Photo Albums
560: Forums
561: Forums
562: Forums
563: Forums
564: Photo Albums
565: Home
566: Your Account
567: Photo Albums
568: Photo Albums
569: Photo Albums
570: Forums
571: Forums
572: Your Account
573: Your Account
574: Forums
575: Forums
576: Forums
577: Your Account
578: Forums
579: Forums
580: Your Account
581: Home
582: Forums
583: Your Account
584: Forums
585: Forums
586: Forums
587: Forums
588: Forums
589: Forums
590: Photo Albums
591: Forums
592: Forums
593: Forums
594: Forums
595: Photo Albums
596: Forums
597: Forums
598: News
599: Forums
600: Forums
601: Forums
602: Forums
603: Forums
604: Photo Albums
605: Forums
606: Forums
607: Forums
608: Photo Albums
609: Forums
610: Forums
611: Forums
612: Forums
613: Forums
614: Forums
615: Your Account
616: Forums
617: Your Account
618: Forums
619: Forums
620: Forums
621: Your Account
622: Forums
623: Photo Albums
624: Forums
625: Forums
626: Forums
627: Forums
628: Forums
629: Forums
630: Forums
631: Forums
632: Forums
633: Forums
634: Forums
635: Photo Albums
636: Forums
637: Forums
638: Forums
639: Forums
640: Forums
641: Your Account
642: Forums
643: Forums
644: Forums
645: Forums
646: Forums
647: Your Account
648: Forums
649: Your Account
650: Forums
651: Forums
652: Forums
653: Photo Albums
654: News
655: Forums
656: Forums
657: Forums
658: Forums
659: Forums
660: Forums
661: Forums
662: Forums
663: Forums
664: Home
665: Forums
666: Forums
667: Forums
668: Forums
669: Home
670: Forums
671: Photo Albums
672: Forums
673: Forums
674: Forums
675: Forums
676: Forums
677: Photo Albums
678: Forums
679: Forums
680: Photo Albums
681: Forums
682: Forums
683: Forums
684: Home
685: News
686: Forums
687: Photo Albums
688: Forums
689: Forums
690: Home
691: Forums
692: Forums
693: Home
694: Forums
695: Home
696: Forums
697: Your Account
698: Forums
699: Forums
700: Forums
701: Forums
702: Your Account
703: Your Account
704: Forums
705: Your Account
706: Forums
707: Forums
708: Forums
709: Forums
710: Forums
711: Forums
712: Forums
713: Forums
714: Forums
715: Forums
716: Forums
717: Statistics
718: Photo Albums
719: Photo Albums
720: Forums
721: Forums
722: Photo Albums
723: Your Account
724: Forums
725: Photo Albums
726: Forums
727: Forums
728: Your Account
729: Forums
730: Forums
731: Home
732: Forums
733: Forums
734: Forums
735: Forums
736: Home
737: Photo Albums
738: Photo Albums
739: Forums
740: Forums
741: Forums
742: Forums
743: Forums
744: Your Account
745: Forums
746: Forums
747: Forums
748: Forums
749: Forums
750: Your Account
751: Forums
752: Forums
753: Forums
754: Forums
755: Forums
756: Forums
757: Forums
758: Photo Albums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Bullet Stabilization With Sabots
Hunting and discussion with Muzzle Loaders, Archery and other Primitive weapons

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rick_Teal
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

I have a CVA Optima .45 calibre in-line. I bought it to see how the bullets I swage will work when saboted in a ML. It has a 1:28 twist rate.

Last weekend I tried out some of my 200 grain .358 bullets. I found that in all but one instance they keyholed. I then tried some Hornady 200 grain spire points and had the same result. I was using pyrodex pellets, and shot 50 and 100 grain loads.

I've been told that the 200 grainers may be too long to stabilize in the gun, and that maybe I should be using shorter bullets. My bullets were 1.07 inches long, while the Hornadys were 1.04 inches long. I make a 165 grainer that is .92 inches long, and I should be able to make a 180 or 185 that would go about .97 inches.

Does anyone have any ideas on my problem?

_________________
Hunting is EXCITING! Bolt Actions are BORING!!!!
Don't Mix the Two!!
Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

/crackes nuckles

Sabots and Muzzle Loaders... yea I know a little. While I dont have experience with the .45 directly heres what I do know. It might very well be just be too much SD to be stabilized in your twist, if you have access to lighter bullets it would be worth a try but concider the following:

First step in diagnosing things is to walk down range and pick up your spent sabots. Examine them closely. They should look like they could be re-used except for rifling markings on the outside. 90% of the time I experience bad accuracy with sabots its because I'm shredding them. They look like a petal is torn off or that from underneith where it slopes towards the center, its torn in a half circle around.

I once tried a new brand of sabots and didnt find any down range! At least not for the first 50 freaking yards... Seems they were holding too tight to the bullet causing crazy bullet flight. They should be relatively close to your gun (throw one as hard as you can... you should find spent ones a little past that distance).

Ok I'll assume you find yours and they look good... if not theres your starting point.

Here is where my lack of .45 experience will shine. In the .50 cal's you have choice of TWO different bullet / sabot combos (this is where newbies go horribly wrong IMO): .429" dia (44 cal) bullets and .451" (45 cal) bullets. Specific sabots are made for each time, miss matching them causes all kinds of problems. Also, as center fire rifles like certain component combinations, front stuffers do to. Trying the different sabot / bullet combos offers more chances to gain accuracy. The .44's are usually not held as tight as the .45's, this I think is due to less plastic to deform between the round and the barrel wall.

Now how does that help you with your .45? I honestly am not familiar with sabot options in .45 but I am pretty sure they make a .40 and a .357 sabot, each something you can test. (I need to talk the wife into getting a .45 cal ML just to test this LOL, I'm curious).

Let us know what you find out next time you shoot it.


-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
popgun
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Mitchell, GA, U.S.A. (2007 pop. 191)

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

Could it be a casting problem. Lead not hot enough to fill the mold cavity without bubbles? Bubbles would create an unstable bullet. Try casting a few at a higher temperature and see if you get more stable bullets.
Another thing, the diameter of the bullet must be what is called for by the sabot maker. Check your bullet diameters.

Point
Quote::
Hunting is EXCITING! Bolt Actions are BORING!!!!
Don't Mix the Two!!

Anything that goes bang is exciting to hunt with. I even like the sound of a string go 'twang'. Fencing

Never bored and always ready to hunt. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Flint54
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 389
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

I agree with Dallan on 2 points:

1) I believe that the legnth of your bullet is too long to be satbilized in the slow twist in your muzzleloader. Most .358 caliber rifles have a 1 in 14" to a 1 in 16" for the slowest. This is much faster than the fastest 1 in 24" that I am aware of in a muzzleloader.

The legnth of a bullet and its revolutions per second (RPS) is the main factor in how fast a twist is required to stabilize it. Weight is much less of a factor. As an example take a .243 caliber all copper bullet and attempt to stabilize it in a 1 in 10" twist .243 Winchester, it can't be done, you will need a 1 in 8" or a 1 in 7". Weight is not the factor the legnth is.

Try some standard weight .357 pistol bullets such as a 158 & 180 gr. These should stabilize. BTW in my handguns - .357 Mag , .357 Max & .35 Remington I use the Nosler 180gr handgun partition bullet with excellent results. Your velicity will be very similar to my .357 Max and below what I get out of the .35 Remington, and this bullet will hold together.

2) Check your Sabots. If they blow apart in any way you will be lucky to hit the broadside of a barn from inside the barn!!! I have used Wonder Wads on top of the powder with excellent results in both .50 & .54s with PRBs, Maxis, Sabots and Powerbelt bullets. My suggestion is to give them a try also. Cheers


Last edited by Flint54 on Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Rick_Teal
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

I never thought to look for the sabots. I won't be able to shoot for a couple of weeks (a pesky moose hunt is coming up), but I'll put together some 165's and 180's and give them a try. AND I'll look for the sabots afterward.

popgun:

I'm a swager - not a caster - my bullets are jacketed and uniform, so that can't be my problem.

Another thing I was wondering about is if its possible that I wasn't seating the bullets squarely? The sabots are Hornadys and they are designed for .357 bullets, but I don't think .001 is enough to make them inappropriate. I'm using a tip on my ramrod that's designed for pointed bullets, so I don't think that's a problem.

Maybe I'll play with a twist rate calculator, and see if it can give me a weight (or length) that a 1:28 twist rate will stabilize.

_________________
Hunting is EXCITING! Bolt Actions are BORING!!!!
Don't Mix the Two!!
Back to top
View user's profile
Flint54
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 389
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:31 am    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

Here are some links to a company that I have tried in the past. I was intrested in finding out if they would work in a Contender so I contacted Gerard and he was quite helpfull and very friendly. His site has a lot of great information in one spot. This info is very usefull all around so please look it over. I know that much of it doesn't pertain to Primitive Weapons but some information is as this thread indicates.

As I stated in the previous post stabilizing a bullet is a matter of reaching the correct RPS for the given legnth of a bullet. If the proper velocity can be reached for the twist of the rifling the bullet will be stabilized, if your velocity doesn't allow the bullet to reach its stable RPS teh bullet will keyhole and begin to tumble destroying accuracy and effeciency.

Here are a few links to a site that makes custom homogonous bullets for modern firearms.


www.gsgroup.co.za/cip.html - International bullet twist chart

www.gsgroup.co.za/faqb...twist.html - Bullet Twist Article

www.gsgroup.co.za/07faq.html - GS Custom Bullets FAQs

gscustom.co.za - GS Custom Bullets Home Page


Good luck with the new tests. Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Rick_Teal
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

Subsequent to my earlier posts on this thread, I made some shorter bullets (168 grains), and when they didn't work, made a different type of bullet that was shorter by necessity (both 197 grain and 171 grain). I still met failure.

I searched the web to see if there was an alternate source of sabots to no avail.

I then decided to buy some 40/45 sabots and build them up some way to make them grip my .35 calibre bullets. Today was my first attempt. I used cloth patching that was .011 thick, doubled it over and wrapped it around the bullet inside the sabot, making effectively a thickness of .044, which with my .358 bullets should make a diameter of .402.

I set out with 3 bullet designs all set up in these sabots, and was met with universal failure. When I could find the impact points the bullets were all sideways.

I scrubbed that project for the time being, and proceded to sight the rifle in using Power Belt bullets, it shot like a charm.

I'm thinking of using something else to build up the inside of the 40/45 sabots. I'm thinking of trying something like liquid paper or nail polish. Any thoughts?

_________________
Hunting is EXCITING! Bolt Actions are BORING!!!!
Don't Mix the Two!!
Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

Are you sure that gun is a 1/28" twist?


-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Rick_Teal
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

Dallan:

I haven't actually tested it myself, but its marked on the barrel and in the literature, so I have to figure that's what it is.

_________________
Hunting is EXCITING! Bolt Actions are BORING!!!!
Don't Mix the Two!!
Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

Hey what happened to your avatar?

-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chuck41
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Hot Springs, AR

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

If you really want to use the 200 grain bullets perhaps your equipment will allow you to swage a 40 cal bullet that is a bit shorter.

MMP Sabots offers a 45/40 cal sabot for that purpose. www.mmpsabots.com/ I use their 50/40 sabots for my Savage smokeless muzzleloader and they seem to work very well.

_________________
Don't need drugs. I get the same effect from just standing up fast.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Rick_Teal
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

I talked to a commercial bullet maker in Manitoba, and according to him if I want to shoot pointed bullets with these sabots in a 1:28 twist rifle they shouldn't have more than a 2 calibre ogive - almost blunt. Mine have a 4 calibre ogive, so I'm out of luck - unless I begin making handgun bullets.

I really like the CVA Optima rifle, so now I have some decisions to make.

Sell the gun, buy a new one in .50 Cal. and use commercial ammo is where I'm leaning, otherwise I'll be getting some new swaging dies.

_________________
Hunting is EXCITING! Bolt Actions are BORING!!!!
Don't Mix the Two!!
Back to top
View user's profile
d_hoffman
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 696
Location: Chillicothe, Ohio

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Bullet Stabilization With Sabots Reply with quote

Hey Rick, I also shoot a CVA .45 cal. with a 1:28 twist and mine is really accurate with the 195gr Dead Center Sabots from Cabelas with 100gr of American Pioneer Powder. Go to cabelas.com and take a look at them. The bullet it's self is .357 dia, looks like a ballistic tip nosler boat tail except it's all lead with a polymer tip and an orange sabot.

_________________
The best form of gun control...aim straight!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Primitive Weapons Hunting
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 7 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.