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30 WCF action question
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Grant
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

I have an older 30WCF that I picked up from a buddy. The Ser# gives me a production date of 1944-45. I'm having a couple of problems with the action and since this is my first model 94 I thought I'd ask here as there seems to be quite a few that have far greater knowledge about these rifles than I do. Now this rifle has clearly been very well used over the years and may not be worth fixing, but I'm a tinkerer so I'd like to try.

Ok, first problem, loading into the tube mag. I push the first round in and no problem. Then when I try and put the next round in the door to the mag won't open properly as the cartridge is stopping it. I have to really push the door open with my thumb to push the first cartridge back down the tube so that the door will open properly. I then have to hold it open with my thumb to start the next cartridge down the tube mag. This has to be repeated for every cartridge there after. What do I have to do to fix this? Pic#1 and 2 show the problem.

Problem 2. Now I'm not sure if this really is a problem, but it does piss me off. In pic#3 you'll see the firing pin block coming up and pushing the main slide into place. When the rifle is loading a cartridge into the chamber, that final push of the of the pin block to seat the slider into place, it really "clunks" instead of a nice smooth closure of the action. It seems as though the mating surfaces between the firing pin block and the slider are at too sharp an angle or one of them, or both, is just simply worn out. Now, once the action is closed there is no sloppiness or movement so I'm not concerned about firing the rifle, it's just that clunk really pisses me off. I hate when something isn't workin as it should.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Anyone have an exploded view of this vintage action? Might help me to figure out how to fix these problems. Thanx in advance!!!



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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

I got my Win 94 (.44 Mag circa 1994) out and fed some rounds through it to see if I noticed the problems you mentioned. I didn't have any particular problem loading rounds into the magazine although the rounds don't really feed in easily. As for the "clunk" at the end of the lever stroke, mine does something like that too.

I think your best bet, since you have concerns, would be to take the gun to a good gunsmith for a going over.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

O K guys...Here we go. Your .30 WCF is functioning properly. For your first problem. When loading a Mod 94 you insert the first round part way and hold it with your thumb and push it in with the second round part way and hold it with your thumb and so on as the photo shows (I couldn't show my thumb on the second photo as I had a camera in that hand).

Now the second problem...The "click" or "clunk" upon bolt closing by the bolt block. That is the sound of the extractor riding over the case rim and locking in place. If you place your finger on top of the bolt you will feel the extractor rise and fall in time with that "clunk"...

As far as the condition of the rifle. If everything seems loose when the bolt is open and the lever is all the way down. That is normal. As long as everything is tight when the bolt is closed and the bolt block is all the way up. Inspect the bore to insure it isn't too pitted or no pits at all. With the rifle pointed in a safe direction, run a few rounds through the rifle action to insure proper function. Before firing, if you are still in doubt you should let a competent gunsmith examine it...Your photos indicate that it could use a good cleaning...

The one pictured is a 1949 vintage (1608XXX) and the bore is smooth and shinny with sharp rifling...

Grant...Be very careful what you do to that rifle. Mine is worth around $550 to $600. If it shoots fine and the wood isn't too bad. You might just want to clean it up a little. I still hunt with mine...

By The Way...You can unload this rifle without chambering every round contrary to popular belief...



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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

Grant,
Here is your exploded view for future refrence:
www.nrapublications.or...ExView.asp

I was going to offer $200 for the parts since it was broke, but Bushy ruined the joke. Very Happy Bushy is a lever gun kinda guy and the 94 is his cup of tea.
Ed

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

Aah SwampFox...Yer such a flirt... Very Happy

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
By The Way...You can unload this rifle without chambering every round contrary to popular belief...

I'd like to see how you do that one. Smile Never heard of anything like that. Smile

Dimitri

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

I load my Marlin levers (1895 and 336) the same way as Bushy explained. It can be done the way Grant was trying to load, but it is much easier the way Bushy does it.

I unload the magazine by pushing in on the gate and removing the cartridges that way instead of cycling the lever as well.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

.30 WCF Mod 94 does not lend itself to that kind of unloading through the loading gate that 1895ss explained. I will try to answer Big D's question as best as I can. Photos first...

In Photo 001 you see the cartridge laying on the carrier. The carrier has two positions. all the way down and up. When unloading from this position [carrier down] the cartridge is loose and if you tip the rifle upside down it will fall out. Some times a little shake and or finger work is needed. After the first one is out close the breech and reopen it to the point that the carrier stays down. If it pops up, just push it back down. Repeat the above for each round.

In Photo 002 you see the cartridge as it has swung out of and off the carrier. All you have to do now is pull it through the two cuts that are on either side of the inside of the receiver on the two opposing rails (cartridge guides).

In Photo 003 you can see the two cuts and the carrier at its lower or down position. If you have done this procedure no round will have entered the chamber...The two cuts in the rails show up better in Photo 001...

With a little practice this procedure takes less then 30 seconds to unload 4 rounds...



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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...


Last edited by Bushmaster on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

Kinda like short stroking it Bushy then I'd imagine. Smile

Dimitri

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

Pretty much...The carrier pops up on that last 1/4" to 1/2" of bolt movement...

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

A lot of good info on the mod 94 bushy. Good tips Very Happy
Joe

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Grant
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

Thanx Bushy and everyone else, ya learn something new everyday. I'll chalk this up to inexperience with this rifle. Loading it your way Bushy works much better. After I chambered a few rounds and looked a little closer, I see that it is the extractor moving over the case rim that makes the noise.

On another note, what are you using for a load in yours? I went by the Lyman book and used 150 grain bullet with 31.5 grains of IMR4064. They say max is 32 grains. I disregarded the Lee book, he says with IMR 4064 that the starting load is 33 grain and the max is 37. That was way to much discrepancy from the Lyman book so I error-ed on the side of caution and went with the lower numbers. Me thinks I'm going to throw that Lee book where it belongs, in the dumpster.

Swampy, thanx for the link!!!! and for not playing the joke on me..... Wink
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

Grant...I load Remington or Winchester cases with 32.0 grains of W-748 and a CCI-200 primer under a Speer 170 FNSP. It gives me just over 2000 fps. According to my Winchester load manual that is a maximum powder charge. My Lyman 48th says that is a minimum powder charge and the maximum is 35.6 grains. I would imagin that would be a bit hot for your ol' jack handle...

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
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Grant
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

Ol jack handle??????....... Fencing ... Very Happy

This old gun sure has had some use, there is arguing about that. The original rear stock has been "painted", unfreakin believable. Lotsa sanding and re-staining in it's future. Except the fact that the bluing is all worn off and the stock has a few dents and dings it's actually in good shape. Seems to be all cosmetic. It will be a great pack gun on my pontoon boat, that or the new SKS I have on order, while I'm drifting rivers fly fishing for Rainbows. Never know when a bear or kitty cat will appear on the river with an attitude. (even the odd moose has caused concern in the past)

Why do you use 170 gr bullets? Everything I read seems to lean to the 150 gr.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: 30 WCF action question Reply with quote

I was at the range with a friend of mine when he saw my Winchester .30 WCF. "What? You still using that old jack handle?" Then he saw me put 3 shots into a 3" red dot at 100 yards. He's been wanting to buy that "ol jack handle" ever sense.

170 grain FNSP maintain their velocity over a longer range and hit harder. People seem to think that if it starts out faster it will be faster out at range. Not so...Lighter bullets loose velocity faster then heavier bullets. Besides my jack handle won't hit a 3" red dot as well with the 150 grainers.

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
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